Inconsistent Gaits

[JMS Miniatures]

Ok out of the blue my horse is having such inconsistent gaits its not even funny. This is a 9 year old experienced show horse thats been driving for 6 years now and when I trained him he was actualy easy to train, I have no clue why he is acting like this and its starting to get frusterating.

For one his walk is very slow, no forward motion at all, its been like that all year but really didn't think much of it. His collected trot is all over the place. One minute his trot is really slow, to almost perfect, then he goes real fast to his extended without asking. I try to make him slow down and telling him easy but he just doesn't listen. Then of course when you try to extend he breaks and canters. I try to shut him down by doing figure 8s, serpatines, anything to keep his feet moving but not thinking forward motion. He has broke so much that he gives it away so easily he will just turn in himself. I thought maybe he just needed to get out and just drive on the country roads so we went 10 miles today and it helped some but he still broke. What can I do? I almost feel like I myself is so green that I feel like sending him off to a driving trainer for a couple of months but I want to fix it myself as something is wrong. I will agree he is showing a huge lack of respect and he probably should not even go into the cart and just do groundwork but unfortuantly our last show is next weekend. I would like to survive this last show. Should I just not drive him anymore til then and just do groundwork? And what should I do to fix this.

 

[Ann knight]

Maybe he is sore ?

Ann

 

[wildoak]

Any training issues aside, might he be sore/uncomfortable somewhere that's making it hard for him to hold together? Just always my first thought with a horse who is acting out of the ordinary. Maybe a chiropractic adjustment?

Jan

 

[RhineStone]

I will agree he is showing a huge lack of respect and he probably should not even go into the cart and just do groundwork but unfortuantly our last show is next weekend.

Other than what Ann said, if he is pushing the envelope with other things, maybe he is trying to make decisions in the cart, too. If he is acting this way out of "spite" or something else, is he going to show well? Probably not, so it might not be even worth showing him until you can put more time in on him. No sense taking him to a show just to fight with him. That's no fun!

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Sudden changes like this do not happen without cause. Have him checked by a vet and/or chiropractor! Horses break to a canter because it's easier than doing an extended trot so when they're sore that's the first thing they do. Something is not right with your friend and IMO you need to make sure it's not equipment- or pain-based before deciding he's just being naughty and trying to cure it with a wet saddle blanket.

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would like to hear a little more background on this horse. You say he has been driving for 6 years. What type of driving is he doing? You are going to a show next weekend. This is October. When did you start showing this year? Have you always had a long show season or is this the longest year you have had? Have you made any changes to his tack or hitching recently? Is there any part of his harness that has worn or stretched? Has he had his teeth done or at least checked recently? How much driving experience do you have? No offense intended but are your hands good, quiet and kind? Can he bend going around corners?

This horse is sore somewhere. There is almost no doubt. He is trying to tell you something and you really need to listen. I would not advise you taking him in the showring or even driving him for the time being either on the ground or in the cart until you figure out where the trouble is coming from. It could be a dental issue, a physical problem due to an injury, a training issue or an equipment issue. I don't think it has anything to do with lack of respect or spite. You said it was "sudden" but then you said you noticed a difference in his walk at the beginning of the year. I think this is something that has been bothering him for quite some time and is gradually getting worse. Taking him in the showring you could be risking a bolt which will not only affect you but others in the ring - one more show is not worth it. If there is a knowledgeable trainer or horseperson near you that could come and have a look at him for you, and watch you drive him, it might not be as expensive as you think and you wouldn't necessarily have to "send him off to a trainer". I would try that first, then have his teeth checked, then a physical done if you haven't come up with anything by that point.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Within 6 months he has had his teeth done and he had a lil adjustment done but nothing major at all. I worked him in the roundpen tonight and he seemed to be going around just fine, in fact it took me some effort for me to even get him into a canter. He doesn't act sore, he goes along in the cart just fine. No change in tack, the tack is perfectly fine. We normaly don't have a show in Oct. Nationals is our last show. BUT, there is no reason for him not to just go out and just drive. He was even just checked by a vet past couple of days and the vet couldn't find anything out of the oridinary. He drives in Western, so his head is not being hold by a check and nothing strenous.

I decided to not drive him but just do some groundwork. Just to see if anything improves.

 

[MiLo Minis]

Within 6 months he has had his teeth done and he had a lil adjustment done but nothing major at all. I worked him in the roundpen tonight and he seemed to be going around just fine, in fact it took me some effort for me to even get him into a canter. He doesn't act sore, he goes along in the cart just fine. No change in tack, the tack is perfectly fine. We normaly don't have a show in Oct. Nationals is our last show. BUT, there is no reason for him not to just go out and just drive. He was even just checked by a vet past couple of days and the vet couldn't find anything out of the oridinary. He drives in Western, so his head is not being hold by a check and nothing strenous.

I decided to not drive him but just do some groundwork. Just to see if anything improves.

According to him there is a reason for him not to just go out and drive

So, from the sound of it you do breed ring driving with him. And you have extended his show season longer than you ordinarily would. Does this horse bend going around the corners or is he driving like a typical breed ring horse leading with his shoulder and pushing the shafts around the corners pulling the cart along rather than pushing it? The reason it is important for us to teach our horses to bend and drive from the hind end is that over time this will prevent stress injuries. That is something that you seldom see in the breed show ring. Most of those horses have a very short career in the ring before they go on to the breeding paddock. Your horse is being required to drive for a lot more years than most in the breed ring. Most people showing in the breed ring hitch their horse for maximum short term performance and have them pulling off the saddle rather than pushing into the breast collar. Even in Western pleasure you quite often see this. If you watch the horses going around the ring they are crooked in the shafts, head to the outside and leading with the inside shoulder. He obviously hasn't always driven Western as he has been driving longer than that class has been offered. What does your warmup consist of? How do you train at home - length of time, how often per week, movements used, etc.?

Horses, left to their own devices, travel crooked. This is fine if they are never asked to pull weight. For them to be able to drive well for any length of time it is important to get them moving straight and then you can work on getting them to bend. If you don't accomplish this eventually you end up with a sore and tired horse. I think that is what he is trying to tell you. The fact that he is transitioning upwards on his own means that he is trying to balance himself as he is feeling insecure. I think there is a good chance that you, and he, would benefit greatly from some driving lessons with a knowledgeable instructor.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

He can bend one way pretty good but one side not so much. He also does obstacle driving, goes on trails, so its not just round and round in circles. On a good day we will just drive for like 30 min. But if we are having issues that I need to correct lately its been defintelly an hour an hour and a half and drive maybe twice a week, the rest we just do ground stuff. I haven't really worked much for this show, he has had a couple of weeks off since Nationals. He also hasn't shown every year driving, maybe 4 out of the 6. He used to show in country before but he was always driven with a long check.

With our warm ups we do figure 8s and try to do some bending exercises like serpatines before we start.

 

[MiLo Minis]

He can bend one way pretty good but one side not so much. He also does obstacle driving, goes on trails, so its not just round and round in circles. On a good day we will just drive for like 30 min. But if we are having issues that I need to correct lately its been defintelly an hour an hour and a half and drive maybe twice a week, the rest we just do ground stuff. I haven't really worked much for this show, he has had a couple of weeks off since Nationals. He also hasn't shown every year driving, maybe 4 out of the 6. He used to show in country before but he was always driven with a long check.

With our warm ups we do figure 8s and try to do some bending exercises like serpatines before we start.

From what you just told me I can almost guarantee that we are on the right track here and he is starting to protest because he is getting sore from not moving correctly. He is just at that make it or break it point in driving where you are either going to get him straight and then bending or he is going to blow up on you. Working off his forehand is making his muscles sore because the front end of a horse's skeleton is only connected to the rest of the skeleton by muscle not bone. He doesn't have the support up front to carry the weight of a cart - he needs that huge muscle and bone in his back end to help by doing the majority of the work. All horses feel like they "bend" better one way than the other and that is because they are crooked to start. This isn't actually bending but they are better balanced naturally in one direction than the other. Watch a horse running free and you will see that they lead with one shoulder and their head turned to one side. Bending exercises on their own will only exasperate the problem because unless he is actually bending around those tight corners he is going to be even more crooked, lead more with his shoulder and get more sore. You need to back off a bit and go back to LARGE circles and really open loopy changes of rein while asking with your hands for the bend and using your whip on his inside barrel to encourage him to bend through his body and get his back leg under himself on the turns to help support and keep him upright. Do this at a comfortable working trot. It is his feeling of being out of balance that is making him move up into the higher gait because he can pull himself upright if he moves faster. I find spirals can be very helpful with bending. Start in a HUGE circle at a working trot asking for the bend and with each pass close the circle in the width of the cart and slow the trot - start at a 10 pace and work down to a 5 and then back out and up again. Work equally in both directions with plenty of support on your outside hand while asking with your inside hand for the bend. I would also be driving this horse more than once or twice a week. That isn't enough to continue to develop him. Every other day at least. Even when you go out on the road you can work on bending by doing shallow serpentines as you go along being sure to ask for the change in bend as you change direction. Or you can just work on getting him to move straight. What you don't want to see is his head hanging off to one side or the other as he moves forward leading with one shoulder - he needs to move both shoulders out equally to be straight. I really think you are seeing this because you are driving him more this year than you usually have and he has reached the point where he needs more support, isn't getting it and is therefore becoming sore.

I would also get him working off his haunches more by asking him for transitions up and down. Ask him for a halt and trot off or a halt, back up and trot off. Start working on this at the walk at first keeping him on the bit and not allowing him to throw his head up and himself into the breast collar to shove the cart along. You want to feel him push that weight with his back end. Right now he is working off his forehand and losing impulsion.

A good warmup starts by getting the horse straight. Each time it will get easier and quicker to get him straight. Once you have him straight then you start to work on getting him bending, again it gets quicker and easier as he develops but even so you go through all the steps with each warmup. 30 minutes isn't enough time to properly warm up a beginner horse or an experienced horse that hasn't learned yet to bend and carry himself. The good thing is that because he has been driving for a while he has developed some muscle, now you just need to get him working the proper way using the proper muscles.

The hard part is that at a breed show you seldom have the time or space to warm a horse up correctly but if you have been working him correctly at home he will not be so sore that you can't give him a shorter, less effective warmup and drive him for the few minutes a breed show class takes even if he isn't truly on the bit and bending nicely and still get a decent performance.

Just one other question: Is this a stallion or a gelding?

 

[susanne]

...perhaps too obvious of a question, especially after Lori's insightful thoughts, but is his winter coat coming in and could it be getting caught in any buckles or straps?

 

[MiLo Minis]

...perhaps too obvious of a question, especially after Lori's insightful thoughts, but is his winter coat coming in and could it be getting caught in any buckles or straps?

Not too obvious Suzanne and a very good thought but as she noticed this coming on earlier in the season and it has been worsening and she is showing him so I assume he is body clipped (but then, assuming can get you in trouble

) so I would think a winter coat is not likely the culprit in this particular instance.

Suzanne is so right though, something as simple as that can throw a horse right off his gaits. My stallion, the one pictured in my avatar, who was very capable of truly collecting and bending and giving me an excellent dressage test, suddenly started having trouble collecting and wanted to fall in badly on a circle. Earlier in the season he had shaken his bridle loose after a cross country course and I was left sitting in the cart with no bridle.Fortunately he knew voice commands well and came to a halt for me. I got off, put the bridle back on and snugged up his throatlatch, which was obviously too loose, one hole and continued in the season with it that way. The cure for his "problem" was to loosen the throatlatch again and replace it with a gullet strap. I had made him sore because he couldn't hold his head where he liked to carry himself, with the throatlatch tightened like that.

I get horses in that are having trouble all the time and I have gotten used to asking questions and listening carefully to what I hear from the owner to try to decipher where the problem is coming from. I really believe this is soreness related to a driver/training issue.

 

[Sandee]

One other thought. If he has been showing a lot this season, perhaps he's working on an ulcer. My guy shows in Western too and has a really "go now where fast" walk but at Nationals he was a mess going slower and slower no matter what I did. Got home and had his blood checked. Vet said the results are what she'd see with an ulcer.

 

[Jetiki]

I would guess back or sacroiliac issues. My mare slipped and fell while in the round pen and threw her's all out of whack and caused an issue similar to the OP's problem. lack of consistency, not wanting to go round and forward, cantering instead of doing a strong trot. I really wish they'd call it a strong trot and not an extended trot, because its really not a true extended trot, but thats neither here nor there. My point is this, look at the back/sacrum ie chiropractor and see if that is the problem.

karen

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I took him to the vet this morning because this weekend he wasn't eating very well. The vet checked him all over, literally, and we have come up with ulcers. After ruling out colic on Sunday thats what I come up with as well.

Never said he has been getting worse all year. This just started a week ago. So him having a ulcer makes sense to me. He could have got it at Nationals and it just intenseified once we started driving again.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I took him to the vet this morning because this weekend he wasn't eating very well. The vet checked him all over, literally, and we have come up with ulcers. After ruling out colic on Sunday thats what I come up with as well.

Never said he has been getting worse all year. This just started a week ago. So him having a ulcer makes sense to me. He could have got it at Nationals and it just intenseified once we started driving again.

An ulcer does make sense. You did say in your original post that "his walk has been slow all year" but you didn't think much of it. That does indicate that he did have a better walk at some point prior to this year or you wouldn't have noticed it was slow. Since then he has progressed to jumping into the next gait, etc - that would indicate worsening. He could easily have been working on developing an ulcer for a while now though. Glad you have found a possible cause and hope you can get him feeling better and back on track quickly!

 

[brasstackminis]

An ulcer does make sense. You did say in your original post that "his walk has been slow all year" but you didn't think much of it. That does indicate that he did have a better walk at some point prior to this year or you wouldn't have noticed it was slow. Since then he has progressed to jumping into the next gait, etc - that would indicate worsening. He could easily have been working on developing an ulcer for a while now though. Glad you have found a possible cause and hope you can get him feeling better and back on track quickly!

I just thought I would mention a little something here about ulcers. A few weeks ago I went to a seminar put on by an equine nutritionist (from Purina)about making hay stretch during our horrible drought and lack of hay.

She mentioned a new study where they were able to put a camera into a horse's stomach during workouts. They found that horse's stomachs collapse during exertion and more so the harder/faster they work. So when a horse is galloping it is super likely, with a very small stomach volume avalible, a horse will get ulcers from the stomach acid being pushed up into the esphogas. It was reccommended that horses never work on an empty stomach to prevent ulcers. It was also reccommended that horses were fed maybe 30 mins before a workout but, not much more, so as to avoid ulcers. She also mentioned feeding alfalfa to prevent and treat ulcers. My vet/chiro said that alfalfa acts like a tums because of the extra calcium in it. If your horse leaves his concentrates (ie grains) for hay, he is trying to self medicate because he has ulcers and it feels better to stop eating grain and eat alfalfa, or grass hay if he has no alfalfa. It was reccommended to me by my vet to feed a small amount of alfalfa with their grain so they can help themselves heal/prevent their ulcers. Actually my vet said to take the horse off of grain for awhile if ulcers were suspected. I have had great success with alfalfa added to the diet to get my slow grain eaters to eat more normally. For example, it worked with a horse I had in for some socializing. She would not eat grain very fast and would beg for hay even with a full bucket of grain. I mean, to me it is odd for a horse to leave grain for coastal!

I took her off grain and gave her alf for awhile instead. Then I added grain back after two weeks, still feeding her alfalfa. When I sent her home a few months later, she no longer ate slowly. Vet said he was positive she had ulcers. My friend is anti-alfalfa, so she has not had any since she returned home 2 years ago and still eats her grain quickly (at a comprable speed to her other minis). So if I was told my horse had ulcers, I would feed him before I worked him and I would also make sure he had alfalfa...WITHOUT grain (if it were me) at least for a little while.

The other thing you can do is give him a vitamin b shot. It is amazing how being low on b vitamins can make you sluggish and "off." I get a vitamin b shot about once a week!

It is hard to overdose on b vitamins too. My vet told me 2 cc for my 300lb minis. Did your recent vet check include any bloodwork? This won't help you to know about b vitamins (stored in cells, not in blood) but you can tell a lot about organ function by a good bloodwork up.

One last thing, not that it is not ill-fitting tack or soreness, but assuming or ruling those out... the more horses learn, the more they have in their arsenal to use against you!

It is possible, if nothing else comes out being the problem, that he is doing what any of us would do...anything we can to get out of working harder than necessary! If left without supervision or any sort of guidance at work, eventually most people would begin to do the bare minimum. He may have just figured out how to get you to let him be lazy! Now he is protesting having to work harder than he would like! OR he could be confused if he was trained by someone other than you. At first he was strong in his training and understanding. After awhile, he might be confused without a refresher. I second the suggestion of taking some lessons with a good driving trainer. If they tweek one tiny thing and it makes you and your horse happier, it is worth every penny!

Ok, Ok, I have babbled on long enough...probably no one is reading anymore! LOL

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Ok, Ok, I have babbled on long enough...probably no one is reading anymore! LOL

I read it! LOL. I thought you had some good points. I put both my ulcer-prone horses on a handful of alfalfa per meal as an additional counter-measure last spring and found that while they loved the alfalfa they then got very picky about their grass hay ("What is THIS awful stuff?? We want more alfalfa!") and it didn't seem to help with my one horse eating his grain or the other one not getting stressed and off his feed at shows. It also became a real problem to pack two kinds of hay when traveling and keep straight what they were getting when there were house-sitters or more than one person feeding.

In order to simplify the feeding routine I finally tried some U-Gard Pellets which have an alfalfa base and just about every good effective ingredient I'd ever heard of (aloe, kaolin, etc.) along with the basic antacid product and was STUNNED at the results. Within two days both horses were eating better even at home and now when we travel I don't even pack the Ulcergard paste we used to live by. Nobody goes off their feed, nobody acts colicky or gets upset in the trailer, both horses absolutely hoover up their food at every meal and the problem gelding paws for his grain, scarfs it all up and then gobbles all his hay just like a normal horse should. I couldn't believe it! It was like a miracle after seven years of fighting with him.

U-Gard and other antacid products won't cure an existing ulcer but I think they break the cycle where the horse expects that eating will bring pain so he doesn't want to eat. Kody wouldn't even take treats once he loaded on the trailer- you could almost see his stomach start cramping from nerves the moment he loaded. Now I give him a handful of U-Gard pellets, he loads right up and starts eating his hay.

I wasn't expecting that good of a result from the product (or any product!) so I was really pleased and just thought I'd share.

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

I read it! LOL.

.................

Nobody goes off their feed, nobody acts colicky or gets upset in the trailer, both horses absolutely hoover up their food at every meal and the problem gelding paws for his grain, scarfs it all up and then gobbles all his hay just like a normal horse should.

Leia

I read it too.

You made some very good points. I have been reading up on ulcers because it seems to be a huge problem with Minis and I have been wondering why. A quick tap on wood here but I have not had problems with ulcers among my horses and I have been wondering what the difference is.

Going back to full size horses and Pony Club days where we learned the rules of feeding a horse - little and often; water, hay, grain - in that order.

I feed my horses 4 times per day as I am home here with them so it is no problem. I feed hay free choice so they can pick out the really choice bits leaving the less palatable pieces and I don't feed grain until a horse can't keep enough weight on with hay alone - such as when they are getting too much exercise to exist on hay only. Sometimes they are leaving hay in their stall but it is only because they are too full to eat any more - that tells me it is time to cut back their hay a little and replace some of it with grain if they aren't at a weight I like. The show horses do get concentrated feeds and feed additives for their coat and condition and part of their hay portion is replaced by this. All the horses always have a bucket of water in their stall, I feed them their hay and then go about making up their buckets of concentrated feed, grain. They are happily and quietly munching on their hay while I am getting the buckets ready. They get their grain but not until they have gotten a good portion of hay into their bellies. Their is no "pawing for grain", "scarfing" or "gobbling".

In this day of people working and trying to keep horses at home it is difficult for some to schedule their horses in. Too many people are just throwing feed at them when it is convenient for them and I think this is a huge part of the problem regarding ulcers.

Brasstackminis: "She would not eat grain very fast and would beg for hay even with a full bucket of grain. I mean, to me it is odd for a horse to leave grain for coastal!"

It sounds to me like she is an intelligent horse who was trying to tell you something and you, as a good horsekeeper, listened to her. Kudos to you!

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Well being on UlcerGuard seemed to help, his behavior was a whole lot better too. But after a couple of days being off of it he has gone back down hill. So maybe just need something stronger, but probably be taking him back to the vet again this week. He has been getting alfalfa all year.