Inhuman practices at shows

[Mercysmom]

It is easy to see a snippet of the "abuse" without getting the whole story and understanding both sides, and feel strongly against it. But it is very closed-minded.

Andrea - I feel I am very open minded, and would be very interested to learn why it's necessary to put elastics and chains and pulleys and dumb jocks on a horse to the point of scarring and snap a whip the entire time the horse is on the way into the ring or shake cans full of rocks to improve or create action. I've also seen someone use a bicycle chain as a bit. I'm not trying to be argumentative, and would be interested in the full story from your side.

When a pony cannot stand next to a rail waiting for their class without a cloth over their head, I'm concerned about what that pony has gone through to the point.

I own a Modern Shetland who has never known what elastics, weights and the like are. She moves big and has done so since she was a foal and she is barefoot. She will show in Modern Pleasure in two weeks and she lives her life like a horse - turned out daily with her friends.

She is hot by nature - wouldn't want anyone to think I mistreat her as she is very special to me - I could have lost her last year due to a partially paralyzed tongue.

I guess some folks see what Mother Nature has given to some horses and they want to duplicate it so they go to the extremes and cruel practices? Look at humans - some are built like a supermodel and because that is what is marketed in advertising, the public "thinks" they have to look like that.

I will buy more clothing when I don't have to look at size 2 mannequins in the store windows. I am not built like that and will not suffer the indignity of trying to cram myself into clothing like that. If my horses do not show to what trainers think the standard is, oh well. I show for fun - sometimes we win the blue and sometimes we don't. But if I feel my horse is working with me, then I have won something much bigger.

My humble two cents.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Measuring with minis seems to be where the most abuse occurs that I've seen or heard about with minis. The fake mane is nothing compared to teaching them to swan dive/dip their back when the measuring stick comes down. I had one trainer tell me of another that will dig her thumb in and put her very substantial weight on the horse. As he said - if you want a horse to measure in give it to her for an hour.

We have a horse here that at his first show - did that swan dive! I mentioned it to a friend and he said that breeder used a measuring stick with a nail on the end. Horses learn very quickly to 'dip' when that stick came down!

Another trainer that gets great ears/attention from his clients horses takes them in a stall and flips them over. I guess if you scare them enough they'll pay attention to you.

No I'm not ragging on the trainers - there are alot of great ones out there and plenty of owner/operator abuse. And there is a difference from being a bit rough or harsh to actual abuse. I have a few horses that need a firm hand and then the a few that you cold cross your eyes at and they'll melt. It's knowing the difference.

 

[Brandi*]

I just can't bring myself to watch it

But I had never heard of someone cutting a chunk out of a horses withers to make them appear shorter!!!!

GEEZE I have said it before but some people need to be put down

I have to say that things have become a slight bit...not completely ...better since I was a child...although I am FAR from happy with the way Minis are being shown, here, far from happy.

Even so, Hackneys are no longer tied in horse boxes or stalls with bags over their heads and their heads tied up in the air for hours before their classes, not since the RSPCA took a stand.

I even noticed the headers jumping forward to take down the check and removing it as soon as the horses were out of the ring (and remember our ponies are not checked nearly as high as yours, not by a long chalk) I know there were mutterings some years ago to stop check reins altogether so I am very glad to see the Society policing itself.

This does NOT stop cruelty, as these practises are outmoded stupid and pointless, (like tail docking!!) but not "cruel"

The real cruelty does not happen out where you can see it, unfortunately, but at home, where it is very hard to stop.

Things like a horse (this is a verified, true story) that was over height for it's class (show pony, not Mini...relax!!) and had a hunk carved out of it's whithers so it would go under the stick...where do they find the Vets?????

As was said at the start of this thread, true, down and out, evil to the horse cruelty is not rampant in the horse world...even in show horses it is still isolated and rare, it is also relative..that which one person considers "cruel" may be "accepted practise" to another...and maybe we need education rather than laws??

If you want to see real cruelty (and be prepared to cry buckets if you watch the attached video, be warned) go to

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

And look at the "bravest horse in the world" thread.

Hanging would be far too good for the unmentionable excuse for a man who did this.

I am ashamed to share my species with him!!!

 

[mininik]

Carving out the withers? The bone or the bit of fat over them? Verified true by who? Were they actually involved? I seriously question the validity of this accusation. Perhaps the horse had something wrong, like fistula withers and required surgery.

 

[Magic]

If you want to see real cruelty (and be prepared to cry buckets if you watch the attached video, be warned) go to

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

And look at the "bravest horse in the world" thread.

Hanging would be far too good for the unmentionable excuse for a man who did this.

I am ashamed to share my species with him!!!

OMG, OMG, OMG!!!

I couldn't see the video very well for all the tears. The monster who tortured and tried to kill that mare shouldn't be allowed to live!

 

[joylee123]

[SIZE=12pt]My daughter April was a national level Tennessee Walker rider for several years. She worked for a well known barn. [/SIZE]

BUT

their horses are registered with FOSH.( Friends Of Sound Horses) These walkers are never sored or chained.

Some of the practices used by some of the show barns (illegal but used none the less) are heinous

they'll use chains on their pasterns or make small cuts on their pasterns and dowse th area with kerosene to make it sting

FOSH is an awesome organization that promotes natural gaited horses, most are trained by Dressage methods for bending and collection. No severe bits or curb chains allowed.

I hope these people who feel the need to torture a hose to win a ribbon or title come back in their next life as a sored horse

Joy

 

[ruffian]

their horses are registered with FOSH.( Friends Of Sound Horses) These walkers are never sored or chained.Some of the practices used by some of the show barns (illegal but used none the less) are heinous no.gif

This is wonderful. This is what the world apparently needs to handle the buttheads that abuse horses to win.

I was at a walker show some years ago and ask I was walking through the barn I passed numerous participants asking "did you bring . . .?" and the answer was "nope, too sore so I turned her out. At least 5 times I heard a similar story.

I am thrilled that there are reputable people winning because they have good horses and talent! Thanks for sharing Joy

 

[Brandi*]

Even if I could get past hurting an animal (which I couldn't) there would be no joy in winning if it came only by cheating. I'm sure there is a lot of pride in winning when you know your animal won by mere natural talent

 

[Mercysmom]

As was said at the start of this thread, true, down and out, evil to the horse cruelty is not rampant in the horse world...even in show horses it is still isolated and rare, it is also relative..that which one person considers "cruel" may be "accepted practise" to another...and maybe we need education rather than laws??

If you want to see real cruelty (and be prepared to cry buckets if you watch the attached video, be warned) go to

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/

And look at the "bravest horse in the world" thread.

Hanging would be far too good for the unmentionable excuse for a man who did this.

I am ashamed to share my species with him!!!

Oh my! Naysa and her story AND her rehabilitators are just amazing. The man that tortured her should know what goes around, comes around, three fold.

I am still crying over that poor mare's suffering. The fact that she could even trust humans after what she endured that shows how forgiving the equine species is.

Denise

 

[AceyHorse]

This is a very interesting topic and I think its a great one to be discussing. I've only been involved with Miniatures for 3 years and showing for 2, but I am currently deciding if I wish to continue. The more I've learned about my horses the more I like the ideas of natural horsemanship, and sadly there is very little 'natural' about the way many show horses are kept. I do think that the look of some top show horses is very "extreme" and in order to get that look there is often "extreme" practises involved. Do we have to resort to the same practises if we wish to compete with them? Or is there a better way.

As for withholding food from miniatures before a show, horses can actually develop ulcers within 4 - 5 hours without being able to graze, so withholding hay 12 hours before a show, to me, isn't good. A few handfuls of pellets isn't going to cut the mustard either. Long term, this practise and others which involve not allowing horses to graze, can lead to liver damage. Sure humans in certain professions may have to not eat to reach 'competition weight' But horses stomachs produce acid constantly, unlike humans, so if that acid doesn't have food to digest, it starts on the stomach lining, ouch. I've certainly been guilty of this practise, through ignorance and following advice given to me ( not here!) without questioning it. I'm not saying people who do this are ignorant, but I think it is up to us to educate ourselves on the nutrition and digestion system of horses, before we go doing anything radical.

Anna

 

[Brandi*]

Actually I have been told by my doctor that human stomachs do produce acid all the time....well at least once your gall bladder is removed. That is why I have to make sure and eat every two hours or so. I get very sick if I don't.

This is a very interesting topic and I think its a great one to be discussing. I've only been involved with Miniatures for 3 years and showing for 2, but I am currently deciding if I wish to continue. The more I've learned about my horses the more I like the ideas of natural horsemanship, and sadly there is very little 'natural' about the way many show horses are kept. I do think that the look of some top show horses is very "extreme" and in order to get that look there is often "extreme" practises involved. Do we have to resort to the same practises if we wish to compete with them? Or is there a better way.

As for withholding food from miniatures before a show, horses can actually develop ulcers within 4 - 5 hours without being able to graze, so withholding hay 12 hours before a show, to me, isn't good. A few handfuls of pellets isn't going to cut the mustard either. Long term, this practise and others which involve not allowing horses to graze, can lead to liver damage. Sure humans in certain professions may have to not eat to reach 'competition weight' But horses stomachs produce acid constantly, unlike humans, so if that acid doesn't have food to digest, it starts on the stomach lining, ouch. I've certainly been guilty of this practise, through ignorance and following advice given to me ( not here!) without questioning it. I'm not saying people who do this are ignorant, but I think it is up to us to educate ourselves on the nutrition and digestion system of horses, before we go doing anything radical.

Anna

 

[AceyHorse]

Yikes, sorry to hear about your gall bladder. What I have learned is that generally speaking, gastric acid production in humans is triggered by eating, although other issues such as stress can have an affect on this, and also the loss of a gall bladder I've now learned!

 

[Brandi*]

hehehe I guess I got us off topic with that one OH! Sorry

Yikes, sorry to hear about your gall bladder. What I have learned is that generally speaking, gastric acid production in humans is triggered by eating, although other issues such as stress can have an affect on this, and also the loss of a gall bladder I've now learned!

 

[MBennettp]

I was at Nationals one year and saw a very well known owner take a horse in the ring that was colicing. I was in the barn just a few feet from thier stalls when someone told her he was colicing and she said: "Get him on his feet, he has to be in the ring in just a few minutes."

I was shocked to say the least and lost all respect for this person. I would have been more concerned for my horse than for any ribbon even if it was at Nationals.

Just goes to show you that some people that talk about how much they love their horses, really just want the notoriety of winning at any cost.

 

[Jill]

I was at Nationals one year and saw a very well known owner take a horse in the ring that was colicing. I was in the barn just a few feet from thier stalls when someone told her he was colicing and she said: "Get him on his feet, he has to be in the ring in just a few minutes."I was shocked to say the least and lost all respect for this person. I would have been more concerned for my horse than for any ribbon even if it was at Nationals.

Just goes to show you that some people that talk about how much they love their horses, really just want the notoriety of winning at any cost.

I didn't see what you saw (wasn't there) and don't know who you're talking about but how could a handler "get" a horse to perform for halter (it's more than standing up) if it was colicking? Not trying to be a smart--- but really don't know how *I* could "make" one of mine show for me if it was sick. I mean appart from moral issues, I physically would be unable to force any horse to turn it "on" and show if it had colic.

 

[Shortpig]

So all of these things make my body hurt. They really make my brain hurt. I haven't showed much. Not more than a few times. I went to one show and saw a large woman, little horse. The horse wouldn't stand proper for the judge. I immediately sensed what was going to happen when that pair left the arena. I followed them and saw her walk her horse in the stall after grabbing a whip. Welll! Didn't take me long to get to the stall and I just started a long drawn out conversation with the person. I can really talk alot at times and as I was conversing with her I saw her tense angry body start to relax. She seemed to forget what happened in the arena so I felt comfortable walking away. I have to believe she then left that little horse alone and found something else to do.

I took one of my horses to another show. She took second place. A few people told me she would have taken 1st place if she were just a little thinner. Sorry my horses have many bones but I don't want to be able to count them from the outside. She has beautiful conformation, everyone says so but she was up against the 2yr olds and she was 12yrs old at the time. Go figure after two foals and good eating she wasn't slim and trim like them. Somehow I made the mistake that the judge is looking at the conformation of the animal not judging their weight.

There is no excuse for abusing an animal, or for that matter a human. If you can't get along someone else will be able to. People who abuse animals need to be put down. I have seen people whip and whip a horse and everytime that whip landed I felt it. I know what it feels like to be whipped and punched and beat. Grew up with it. So I do know how that animal feels. I choose to reward good behaviour and discuss bad behavior. I will set in front of the animal and ask why they did that. Have yet to get an answer but they seem to understand I'm not real happy with them and they aren't getting any rewards.

People sometimes use their animals as a place to get over their anger. Where do you think the term "Kick the Dog syndrome" comes from? All animals are different, they are also built different. Cruel people will try to get all animals to do what they invision for the animal instead of training the animal for what they are capable of doing. That is their first mistake. Not every horse can run barrels, jump, or pull a cart for that matter. Not every horse is comfortable in a show ring either. But they are pretty much all good at something. For some it is loving their owner and just being there to talk to.

OK I'm done now.