Lost another foal

[Just_Rena]

I had another still born foal today. Anybody have any ideas what may be causing this. Neither on was a red bad, both normal delivery, both full term. First was a sorrel stud, second was a black filly. HELP

 

[HGStables]

I'm sorry im no help here. Very sorry for your loss. Id have vet test the deceased foal.

 

[Riverdance]

Sometimes these things just happen. So sorry for your loss. I have been breeding for 15 years, this year I had my first hip lock (had two and lost both foals and one of the mares, and my first red bag. Saved that foal. Another year I had 5 abortions. Other years I have had no problems.

 

[REO]

Are you there at the time, helping them be born and to get out of the sac?

If you are, I have no ideas

I'm SO sorry you lost your foals. {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

 

[muffntuf]

Is there any fescue fed to the mares, other than that no ideas. I am sorry for your loss.

 

[chandab]

So sorry to hear of your losses.

I have little experience with such losses. My first foal this year was stillborn, or at least I think it would be considered such; extremely twisted cord, so no chance of survival (it likely died in-utero). [i was not there, but with twisted cord, it wouldn't have mattered.]

 

[eagles ring farm]

I'm so sorry ... no help here ...just wondering if you were there when the foal was born

it can be so heartbreaking breeding miniatures... We had 1 mare abort a few weeks ago but just at 3 months along

so even though disappointing not near as bad as waiting 330 + days. We are just happy the mare is fine

and I'm hoping your mare is doing fine too

 

[Just_Rena]

Both mares are fine, it was text book normal deliverys. No I was not there for either (1st mare I was watching when I had to go to the bathroom, 2nd I was at work). I feed Bahia round bales - free choice.

 

[stormy]

Rhino can cause late term abortions or still births also...but as others have siad sometimes things just don't work out, very nearly lost one this year even with a breeder alert as the bag did not break and though it is not far from my house to the barn he was in trouble by the time I got there and took CPR to get him going!!

 

[REO]

Were they still totally in the sacs? It might be that they drowned in the sacs. Minis (generally) don't break through the sacs like big horse foals, due to their legs being shorter. You tried to be there when they foaled. Sad things happen to us all. I'm sorry it happened to you twice and I hope it never does again.

 

[HGStables]

Pleaseeeeeeee have the foal tested it could answer all your questions! I sent my foal granted at 3 months to be tested. It ran me $60. Put it a large bag in the fridge i know its hard take it to vet monday have it sent out i used cornell.

 

[Getitia]

If you were not present during the births - and you returned to find the foals deceased, the most common cause would be the foals did not get out of the sack and they drowned. It is very, very common and can happen within just a few minutes of birth. When the mare stands up after foaling, the act of standing up removes the sack from around the foal - but it is too late, and when you return to the stall the foal will appear "stillborn" but if someone had been available to help remove the sack the foal would have been viable.

Mares can be very sneaky and foal almost immediately when they see you leave the area. I cannot tell you how many times, we have checked on a mare to find her happily munching her hay - turnout the lights and walk back to the office, only to look at the camera monitor and find out that in the few minutes it took us to walk to the office, the mare was laying down to foal. It has happened several times this year actually. The entire foaling process can occur in less than 10 minutes. I'm so sorry for your losses.

 

[Just_Rena]

Thank for the info. My husband has already disposed of the foal so no vet check for the dead baby.

 

[HGFarm]

Yes to what Getitia said!! I have had a couple also that were VERY sneaky that way. One was just a walk of about 50 feet away- she was munching hay- when I walked in and looked out the window- she was down & foaling- that quick.

I also can't tell you how many I would have lost due to not being able to get out of the sack. When I was brand new to Minis, I lost my first foal for that reason. I had no idea and no one had told me. I have never forgiven myself and invested in a camera and breeder alert and the investment has saved many lives over the years.

Here is how my vet has described it:

The placenta did not 'down size' with the size of the horse. A full sized horse weighs about 80 or even more lbs at birth, coming out of the birth canal at a good rate of speed, usually breaks the sack. A Mini baby only weighs about 15 to 25 pounds at birth, and just doesnt have the same size, strength and weight that a big one does to get out.

I have also had varying degrees of toughness of the sack- a few have been very tough and no way a baby would have gotten out on their own. A friend had one that appeared to have been out of the sack but it's just because the mare had grabbed it with her teeth and tore it but the foal still had not survived by then.

 

[targetsmom]

Foals not getting out of the sack when a birth is unattended is, unfortunately, not all that uncommon with minis. I am sorry for your losses. BUT I would also not rule out the possibility of Rhino, especially since it happened twice. Rhino is better known for causing late term abortions, but the mare can carry to term and deliver a weak foal, unable to get out of the sack. Was the placenta delivered WITH the foal? From my reading, that seems to be a clue that Rhino was involved. It happened to us twice - and both times our mares were on Mare Stare and foaled with NO warning. We now vaccinate anyone who is leaving the farm every 2-3 months for Rhino/flu and make sure the pregnant mares get Pneumabort shots at 5, 7, and 9 months gestation. And of course, we are there for the birth. Testing (necropsy of foal) will not always be conclusive.

Did your mares have Pneumabort shots?

 

[tagalong]

as the placenta delivered WITH the foal? From my reading, that seems to be a clue that Rhino was involved.

We have often had placentas come right behind the foal in the past - and no Rhino was involved. Sometimes, it just happens.

I was present at the birth of a pinto mini filly a few years ago who seemed perfectly normal - but she never took a breath. I worked on her frantically doing CPR and every trick I knew for half an hour before I gave up.

A black filly (different dam & sire) born the next year was the same way - but THAT time all my tricks worked... all the other foals born those years were just fine.

Do not feel bad about not being able to send the foal for a necrops., At my previous farm, we sent off a few to be tested over the years and there were NO apparent reasons for those foals not making it. Everything tested normal.

 

[SilverRose Farms]

Very sorry for your loss... its never easy waiting almost a whole year to meet your new addition only to have something happen.

Try and check for Rhino if you can..

And also check the mare.

I have a mare who carried to term once but the foal died of Rhino. Since then she has only been able to catch but she never usually carries past the first 3 months... two years ago she carried to 6 months and again lost the foal.. never saw her come back into heat again had the vet look at her nothing he could see tested her everything nothing worked... Left her alone and it looks like she may actually have a foal this year (THIS was the year we were planning on taking her to Nationals... well that plan changed in a big way)

I have my fingers and toes and just about EVERYTHING I can possibly cross crossed... I dont care if its curly or straight pinto or solid colt or filly so long as it stands and nurses and is healthy...

 

[~Amanda~]

I'm no help with reasons, but I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[mshasta88]

I have had maiden mares in the past give me Dummy Foals, they are basically practice foals and never had a chance at survival, I have also had some mares deliver so fast that the cord staid attached to the placenta and the baby bleeds out, but I have heard of others that this happened to and those foals where fine if the cord was broke in time. I hope this was helpful.

 

[tagalong]

I have never heard of a foal "bleeding out" if the placenta was delivered literally right behind the foal and the cord stayed attached. Not once in over 25 years of foaling out a variety of breeds. There would be no way to "bleed out" as no major blood vessels are involved with a detached placenta. Maybe I am just not understanding what is meant here... ?

Placentas have arrived behind foals and I have not bothered with the cord until the foal starting trying to move around... I have toweled them off a bit and let them get used to their new situation. No foal ever "bled out" and there is no way that could really happen... ?? *confused*