Mare with early bagging now dripping milk at 275 days

[Lucky-C-Acres-Minis]

I use 330 as a "general" due date, but do start watching/night checking at around 300 (of course depending on other signs the mare is giving as well) I've already started checking udders on our girls for change, and the first gal is due May 13th for her 330, but she's starting to develop swelling in front of her udder like she has the previous two foals, so expecting a tad earlier baby from her than the two previous colts since she's already starting to "drop" udder.. Last two foals were born 346 and 355 days, so right now I feel she'll be right around 320-330 days with this foal, but of course can change if she decides to speed up or slow down.. My second gal due is dropping udder as well and shedding like CRAZY, she's due on May 13th at 330, but last baby was a filly born on 318 days, and at this rate, I'm expecting her to go earlier than 330 as well.. We have two others mares, who feel like they too are starting to relax in the udder..

I do have one mare in a similar situation as this mare.. She was the first mare we covered for the season, beginning of June, then showed heat again and allowed us to hand breed 3 times (every other day during heat). Based on LBD she'd be due May 31st at 330 days (first foal was born at 333 days).. We confirmed her in foal on November 11th with WeeFoal test, so based on LBD she would have been 139 days or had she taken on first breeding around 30 days further, she's absolutely HUGE right now, biggest out of the four, and much bigger than her dam who is around the same height, same build but due May 15th.. Since she's so big we started thinking *maybe* she did settle on the first set of covers and not the second, but second guess it because she allowed the stallion to cover her several times during the second heat.. Of course since I waited to test until after the 120 days based on LBD with the WeeFoal that won't help to determine how far along she is.. So now reading through all these I'm wondering if maybe she IS in fact 30 days farther along than we think

 

[Katiean]

That's a good point what. Once a mare is bred do they come back in season while they're pregnant?
Oops - Sorry - Mona and I were typing at the same time.

They may not come back in heat but can appear to when pregnent. I had a mare that settled on her first heat per the vet at 4 months. After she was bred month 2,3 and 4 just like clock work. The vets question to us was "what makes you think she is not pregnant?" We said "she keeps comming back in heat." We took her back to the stud to show him. He said she was not in heat and her breeding should be stoped. Now this was a big horse so preg testing was easier. But my point here is if the mare likes it she will do it. We were hand breeding this mare.

 

[Mona]

Do you all use 330 days as your calculation for due dates? I used 340 but start watching closely at 300 days. Should I be changing that?

I think I am of the minority in the Miniature Horse world, but I calculate the due date by taking the breeding dates, going back one month, and adding a day, and then like you, just watch early on for signs.

So as an example. I breed my mare June 3 thru 8. I would go with a due date of May 4 thru 9. Just a simple method.

 

[ShaunaL]

She's still hanging in there and great news! She's no longer dripping milk and, it may just be wishful thinking, but I think her udder might be a little less firm today. I am so happy we put her on those meds (thanks to you guys!) Of course, I barely take my eyes off her and that will continue until we have a baby, be it tonight or in 6 weeks

I will keep everyone updated on any changes. She's back to eating pretty well again too so she was definitely gearing up to do something this last week. I am watching her on my computer right now at work.

Beth, this is Whitney, my Sierra Dawn Uno de Mayo daughter. The mare we talked about is Tidbit, my Mickey Mouse daughter - she is due April 25th but always foals around 300 days or less so she should go around the end of March. Both girls are solid black and pretty

LOL. I also have a BOB daughter in foal to Reserve World Champion Little Kings Buckeroo Cavalier due in early May. I am so excited about all 3 of these foals! Now, if we can just get them here safely.... At least we are prepared for most anything now, after all this fuss

 

[mizbeth]

Me too Mona, that is exactly how I count the gestation days. I could not remember though if it was +/- a couple of days off of 11 months. We are correct for foaling within only a couple of days. I have just learned this though, in the last couple of years. I do count from the first breeding date though even if it was one month earlier. I cannot say I have had a mare "go over" as the result of this method.

Good luck Shauna, and PLEASE keep us updated! I'm getting sleepy now watching your mare

Oh yes, Tidbit. I LOVE this mare! I cannot wait to see the babies you have this year!

 

[WhiteTailsMinis]

Excellent news Shauna! What a relief! Keep us posted.

Thanks to everyone for all the wonderful information regarding the gestation and calculations - and of course the fact that mares can and will breed again even if in foal. I'm bringing her up to the barn tonight to start watching her as I did the new calculations based on when she went in with him during her foal heat cycle on 8 April. Using April 10th (still within the 10-14 day foal cycle), it says March 18th for 342 days, March 5th for 330, and February 13th (YIKES) for 310 days. She went early last year so we better start watching her more closely.

I always learn so much in this forum from all you experts - truly appreciate your wisdom and eagerness to share.

Wishing Shauna and her mare a very healthy baby - will keep watching for updates.

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

Not so sure about the "experts" information, but surely some of us have had some experience with foaling and don't mind sharing with you. Don't forget to keep checking her bag, a couple of times a day. This is the best indicator of when she will foal based on my experience. That and of course the consistancy, stickiness of her milk.

Good luck to you too, and keep us informed.

Beth

** what must have a ??? meaning here as it will not record?

** yep it did it again, maybe I should add minis after the initials?

 

[ShaunaL]

Well I consider many of you guys to be experts and I don't know what I'd do without this forum to learn from all the time

Whitney has been very quiet all day, eating like normal, spent the whole day standing in the middle of her stall (very mellow for her, enough that I even came home at lunch to check on her in person, make sure she was ok). So that was good but for about the last 45 minutes she has been very restless - pacing and pacing, tail swishing and occasional side biting - acting quite a bit like the first night she was dripping milk actually. She had some drops at the end of her nipples but no dripping that I could tell. This mare is sure going to make me work for this baby! I'm thinking she's probably just uncomfy from being so huge (she is enormous and so low!) but I'll be watching her as closely as ever tonight just in case.

 

[lyn_j]

Dont know if anyone mentioned this cause I didnt read all the way thru but, if the placenta starts to separate or there is an infection in the uterus, a mare will bag up and produce milk. Perhaps there was only a slight separation and it has resolved itself. Make sure you get the IGG level tested and you may want to have vet decide wether or not the foal will need antibiotics or mom just in case. In my 25 years plus experience with minis, bagging and leaking that early has meant infection. Most were early deliveries because of it or red bag.

Lyn

 

[ShaunaL]

Thank you Lyn - she is on SMZs, Regumate and Banamine. My husband (small animal vet) will check over the foal immediately and my mini vet will get there as soon as he can to look the foal over. I hadn't thought much about placental seperation, more about infection, but you're right, we should definitely consider that. I'm surprised I didn't think of that, my own pregnancy (18 weeks now) has been troubled by a slight placental seperation and I just got off bedrest a couple weeks ago for it.

As of this monring she is back to dripping milk heavily and being very restless all night and this morning. We have frozen colostrum on hand and are as prepared as we can be for whatever she decides to do I guess. We are ready to do the IGg test and a plasma transfusion.

 

[Becky]

Sounds like you've got all your bases covered. I know you are as anxious as we are for her to foal. Still keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well and she delivers a healthy, normal foal.

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

I was just thinking about you and your mare. I hope no news is GOOD NEWS?

Beth

 

[Miniv]

Yep....sounds like you got things covered.......

Now all you have to deal with is US.....Your AUDIENCE!

PLEASE let us all know what happens! (I bet all will work out fine.)

 

[ShaunaL]

She's still hanging on

Every day brings us closer to a healthy baby, yay! She's still dripping milk like crazy

but that's not a big deal now that we have the frozen colostrum. I'll keep you guys updated and hopefully they'll be very boring reports for the next few weeks

 

[Irish Hills Farm]

I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal.

BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?

What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.

I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.

 

[twilightranch]

I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal. BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?

What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.

I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.

Hi I have a friend who is going through this same thing and my friend was concerned about this same thing but her vet says this can't STOP mother nature! Hoping all works out for you and your mare!!

 

[ShaunaL]

I've read bits and pieces of this thread and hope all will be well with your mare and foal. BUT I have to ask, what IF your mare did catch on her first cycle and now is the time for her to foal?

What complications could take place by prolonging her gestation? I would think that the foal will continue to grow, and with that when she does go into labor, will she be able to deliver the foal without complication? I would be scared to death to lose my foal and my mare.

I don't mean to be a downer and really do hope everything turns out fine.

I appreciate your concern - I wondered the same thing at first but apparently the Regumate will not stop labor in full-term mares. There are many people who leave their mares on Regumate until they foal on their own. I haven't decided yet if I will stop it at a safe date or leave her on. I WISH I could have more hope that she is due earlier than we think but I really don't think she did. She IS still dripping milk heavily, and usually the Regumate/SMZs/Banamine causes all that to stop, from what I've researched. It stopped for about 20 hours then started again. So it's not working quite as well as in some mares but she's still pregnant so I'm happy

So hopefully we are doing the right thing for her and the foal but... you never know. Praying for a safe delivery without complications! She's 280 days tomorrow, getting ever closer to when we can breathe easier....

Thank you for your concern! I am learning so much from all this and it's wonderful to have all these different aspects to consider and learn from.

 

[mizbeth]

I had a mare I kept on rugmate up until is foaled. The Vet told me the same thing, it will not stop mother nature, and did not in her case. She also dripped all her milk/colostrum the night she foaled and we had to infuse her baby.

Beh

 

[MountainMeadows]

Your "meds" protocol wll not stop your mare from going into labor - however it isn't a bad idea to take her temp daily and monitor it to see if there is a spike that stays prolonged -- if so, it MIGHT be an indication that the placental separation/infection, etc is still running rampant and possibly the foal has died - in that case it is even more important to be there when she foals since a dead baby won't "help" get into position -- almost every single really bad dystocia I have had was the result of a dead foal. I am so glad to see that she is still hanging on, I am pretty sure that without the meds she would have gone last week - you have bought some valuable time, and it might be what saves this baby's life.

Keep up the good work - my fingers are crossed and my prayers are with you and the foal for a safe, healthy birth.

Stacy

PS Foaling miniatures isn't for "woosies" is it!

Boy they sure put us thru the ringer!

 

[ShaunaL]

Your "meds" protocol wll not stop your mare from going into labor - however it isn't a bad idea to take her temp daily and monitor it to see if there is a spike that stays prolonged -- if so, it MIGHT be an indication that the placental separation/infection, etc is still running rampant and possibly the foal has died - in that case it is even more important to be there when she foals since a dead baby won't "help" get into position -- almost every single really bad dystocia I have had was the result of a dead foal. I am so glad to see that she is still hanging on, I am pretty sure that without the meds she would have gone last week - you have bought some valuable time, and it might be what saves this baby's life.
Keep up the good work - my fingers are crossed and my prayers are with you and the foal for a safe, healthy birth.

Stacy

PS Foaling miniatures isn't for "woosies" is it!

Boy they sure put us thru the ringer!

I'll start taking her temp this morning for monitoring. I spent some time last night trying to feel the baby move but couldn't feel anything so I am a bit concerned about baby since then. I did feel it moving a couple days ago so maybe it was just sleeping or I wasn't feeling in exactly the right place. I've been worried about positioning since she started all this early stuff, makes sense to me that a foal born early might not be in the right position to be born yet? Just theorizing on that though - anyone know the stats? I am also concerned that she is HUGELY enormous, makes my other mare due right after her look not even in foal comparatively - so I suppose there is still the possibility of twins. According to my research twins are often missed on early ultrasounds unless the vet specifically seeks out and finds the other uterine horn to see that it's empty. I know that wasn't done on the u/s we had here and I doubt it was on her earlier one's at the stallion's place either. Could also be a large foal, just a ton of fluid or maybe weak uterine and belly muscles. She and the stallion are both little - he's a Buck Echo son so more tiny back there I think.

I am also convinced she would have gone last week without the meds. At 280 days now we are getting pretty close to a viable foal I think. It'll be 7 days tomorrow that she's been dripping milk, large firm udder, mushy rear, etc. It's a little frustrating because except for watching every minute I don't know how we'd tell when she is actually gonna foal? LOL She's just gonna keep showing all the signs continuously I guess

Thank goodness for cameras and Equifone - she's up on almost every monitor at home AND at work - my poor staff is getting a crash course in mare watching.... So someone, usually me or my husband, is always watching her but it's still nervewracking

No, it's not for the faint of heart or those who love sleep, is it? LOL Hopefully my other two mares will be more cooperative.