eagles ring farm
Well-Known Member
fftopic: sorry to go off topic but Nathan I hope your feeling better soon sounds like a rough day
Miniature Twitches?
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fftopic: sorry to go off topic but Nathan I hope your feeling better soon sounds like a rough day
rabbitsfizz
Well-Known Member
I have used twitches all through my life of one sort or another.
You could not survive a stud season with other peoples bl**dy mares trying to kill you without one!!
I have never used a chain twitch- I feel they are potentially too severe and are not appropriate to Minis.
I have until recently used a twisted baler twine twitch- it is an old favourite of my, the twine is bashed with a hammer before twisting so is thick and soft but holds better than one strand of thick soft rope.
It is attached to a drilled hammer handle (I always joke that if the twitch fails I can hit them with the hammer handles- BUT it is a JOKE!!!)
I can tie this by it's end rope to the halter it lays along the mares head and fits nicely.
It does not come off.
Horses learn with a twitch on just as they learn from fighting.
IMO they learn far more from standing quietly and not being hurt than they do from fighting and losing and everyone getting upset.
Recently I have been using a large metal clip with padded ends that was made for holding a tarp up to make a sunshade or WHY - I got it in a camping shop.
I hold the moustache part of the nose out, pop the clip on and the youngster stands still.
How can this not be good??
I have a yearling who just cannot BEAR to let me touch her lower legs.
She tries hard but she cannot.
Neither could her sire, or her grandsire so it is a family thing.
We will get there but in the mean time I need to clip her legs without a fight- I just do not see the advantage of fighting and getting hurt and upset when I can have her standing still allowing me to do it as quickly as I can.
What is the logic behind fighting, sweating, getting kicked etc. ??
So No, from a lifetimes experience I will tell you I shall twitch every single time it is needed.
The one time I will not switch is to breed a mare- I may do it gently with my hand, but no more than that.
That being said I always twitched the big mares- when you are dealing with 16.3hh of someone else's stroppy Thoroughbred there is NO way you are going to spend six weeks teaching it manners- it came in to be bred, you breed it and send it home as fast as you can!!!
You could not survive a stud season with other peoples bl**dy mares trying to kill you without one!!
I have never used a chain twitch- I feel they are potentially too severe and are not appropriate to Minis.
I have until recently used a twisted baler twine twitch- it is an old favourite of my, the twine is bashed with a hammer before twisting so is thick and soft but holds better than one strand of thick soft rope.
It is attached to a drilled hammer handle (I always joke that if the twitch fails I can hit them with the hammer handles- BUT it is a JOKE!!!)
I can tie this by it's end rope to the halter it lays along the mares head and fits nicely.
It does not come off.
Horses learn with a twitch on just as they learn from fighting.
IMO they learn far more from standing quietly and not being hurt than they do from fighting and losing and everyone getting upset.
Recently I have been using a large metal clip with padded ends that was made for holding a tarp up to make a sunshade or WHY - I got it in a camping shop.
I hold the moustache part of the nose out, pop the clip on and the youngster stands still.
How can this not be good??
I have a yearling who just cannot BEAR to let me touch her lower legs.
She tries hard but she cannot.
Neither could her sire, or her grandsire so it is a family thing.
We will get there but in the mean time I need to clip her legs without a fight- I just do not see the advantage of fighting and getting hurt and upset when I can have her standing still allowing me to do it as quickly as I can.
What is the logic behind fighting, sweating, getting kicked etc. ??
So No, from a lifetimes experience I will tell you I shall twitch every single time it is needed.
The one time I will not switch is to breed a mare- I may do it gently with my hand, but no more than that.
That being said I always twitched the big mares- when you are dealing with 16.3hh of someone else's stroppy Thoroughbred there is NO way you are going to spend six weeks teaching it manners- it came in to be bred, you breed it and send it home as fast as you can!!!
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We use twitches occassionally.
I have used them for clipping legs if need be, wish i'd of gone with my own advise and used it when clipping my yearlings legs, but everyone told me it was cruel.... it would have better to use one than not use one as she booted the clippers and cut her leg quite badly, doubt we'll ever get clippers near her legs again without a huge fight and sedation!
Even my vets use them if needs must, when one of my girls needed to be tested to see if she was in foal or not, without a twitch she was up the wall and dangerous before vet even went near her! With a twitch she stood like an angel, however they don't work on all ponies and we do have some here that simply won't twitch at all.
We use one like this Twitch, they are designed for big horses as the nose is suppose to go through the top end, but we just use the stright bar's instead, and you can use them by your self so you don't need an extra handler. (unless they rub them off which they've done before with me!)
I have used them for clipping legs if need be, wish i'd of gone with my own advise and used it when clipping my yearlings legs, but everyone told me it was cruel.... it would have better to use one than not use one as she booted the clippers and cut her leg quite badly, doubt we'll ever get clippers near her legs again without a huge fight and sedation!
Even my vets use them if needs must, when one of my girls needed to be tested to see if she was in foal or not, without a twitch she was up the wall and dangerous before vet even went near her! With a twitch she stood like an angel, however they don't work on all ponies and we do have some here that simply won't twitch at all.
We use one like this Twitch, they are designed for big horses as the nose is suppose to go through the top end, but we just use the stright bar's instead, and you can use them by your self so you don't need an extra handler. (unless they rub them off which they've done before with me!)
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Thanks, again, everyone! Goober that I am, I am actually excited to try my nutcracker twitch, w/ vet wrap, now that DUH I realize to tuck it into the side of a halter. And, I'm going to get the Home Depot clamps and vices in a variety.
Hopefully, this thread maybe helped some others, too. Sometimes twitching a horse truly is the best option for YOU and your HORSE! It's not worth getting yourself or your horse upset and hurt over something you want to -- or need to -- do to the horse. My vets do twitch for a variety of things depending on the horse.
I do also have that chain twitch with the metal ring you turn and then clip to the halter, however, I couldn't get it to work either. But, given that I was too dumb to figure the other one out (tuck into halter!), I'm not pitching it out as I may finally have a mental breakthru and figure that one out as well.
Hopefully, this thread maybe helped some others, too. Sometimes twitching a horse truly is the best option for YOU and your HORSE! It's not worth getting yourself or your horse upset and hurt over something you want to -- or need to -- do to the horse. My vets do twitch for a variety of things depending on the horse.
I do also have that chain twitch with the metal ring you turn and then clip to the halter, however, I couldn't get it to work either. But, given that I was too dumb to figure the other one out (tuck into halter!), I'm not pitching it out as I may finally have a mental breakthru and figure that one out as well.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
I will, Kim! I think I'm going to give it a try on Sunny, my patient boy who's helping me get it sorted out, today or tomorrow.
BTW, am I the only one with this ability to turn the flat out simple into a rubic's cube?
:bgrin
BTW, am I the only one with this ability to turn the flat out simple into a rubic's cube?
:bgrin
carlenehorse
Well-Known Member
Jill when you get the clip on right and into the side of the halter can you take some pictures. I would like to twitch that way but since I have tried that I would like to see a picture of it first.
My yearling filly hats her legs (below the knee) touched and it takes two of us to clip her legs.
This is a filly who went to her first two shows last month and this month and took 1st at both show.
She stood very still and was wonderful. She just hates her legs being messed with.
Carlene
My yearling filly hats her legs (below the knee) touched and it takes two of us to clip her legs.
This is a filly who went to her first two shows last month and this month and took 1st at both show.
She stood very still and was wonderful. She just hates her legs being messed with.
Carlene
Who would have thought pinching a horses nose was such an issue LOL...
If I have a free hand I just hand twitch - I can control the pressure, let up when they are behaving and I know I'm not going to hurt them. It's not always enough of course, or there are times you have to have two hands free. When I need a "real" twitch" I use a clamp with either vet wrap or duct tape around it. The one I like best is an older clamp that's just slightly sprung. It holds pressure but isn't so tight. I've gotten a couple from HD that are so tight I wouldn't consider using them on flesh. I'm definitely in the "pro" twitch camp though - I think the benefits in safety to horse and handler far outweight the risks. We used to show an older QH mare who was absolutely the nicest, sweetest most forgiving soul I've ever known....and who became the horse from he** when you went to clip her ears. She was 14 when we bought her, had been shown, hauled extensively and had obviously had a good start when she was young. Her fear or dislike of clippers in her ears was not going to go away, and I never saw a reason to do battle with her when I could pinch her nose for a few minutes and get it done.
Jan
If I have a free hand I just hand twitch - I can control the pressure, let up when they are behaving and I know I'm not going to hurt them. It's not always enough of course, or there are times you have to have two hands free. When I need a "real" twitch" I use a clamp with either vet wrap or duct tape around it. The one I like best is an older clamp that's just slightly sprung. It holds pressure but isn't so tight. I've gotten a couple from HD that are so tight I wouldn't consider using them on flesh. I'm definitely in the "pro" twitch camp though - I think the benefits in safety to horse and handler far outweight the risks. We used to show an older QH mare who was absolutely the nicest, sweetest most forgiving soul I've ever known....and who became the horse from he** when you went to clip her ears. She was 14 when we bought her, had been shown, hauled extensively and had obviously had a good start when she was young. Her fear or dislike of clippers in her ears was not going to go away, and I never saw a reason to do battle with her when I could pinch her nose for a few minutes and get it done.
Jan
susanne
dB
In no way is proper use of a twitch cruel or painful, and those of you who know me know that I go to all lengths to avoid anything that is the least bit abusive.
If you believe twitching is cruel, see how your horse responds when you hand twitch them -- they virtually fall asleep. I've used assorted clips, and tried them out on my own lips and ears to reassure myself that they weren't painful. Sadly, I didn't get the endorphin release...too bad! Might have been fun to try on a Friday night...
Rather than being a shortcut to training, I feel the twitch is a great training tool. Horses could quote Franklin Roosevelt..."The only we have to fear is fear itself." If they are afraid or upset, they becom emore afraid or upset. If you keep t hem from going there in the first place, they quickly learn that there is nothing to fear.
I also believe in starting with their comfort zones, the places they don't mind being clipped, and slowly increasing that zone. Perhpas not the answer for all, but a good approach when they're merely nervous about something new.
If you believe twitching is cruel, see how your horse responds when you hand twitch them -- they virtually fall asleep. I've used assorted clips, and tried them out on my own lips and ears to reassure myself that they weren't painful. Sadly, I didn't get the endorphin release...too bad! Might have been fun to try on a Friday night...
Rather than being a shortcut to training, I feel the twitch is a great training tool. Horses could quote Franklin Roosevelt..."The only we have to fear is fear itself." If they are afraid or upset, they becom emore afraid or upset. If you keep t hem from going there in the first place, they quickly learn that there is nothing to fear.
I also believe in starting with their comfort zones, the places they don't mind being clipped, and slowly increasing that zone. Perhpas not the answer for all, but a good approach when they're merely nervous about something new.
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Yeah, it really sounds like a lot of us are on the same page about twitching and the reasons it should sometimes be done.
I know that horses do not forget much and if they have a bad experience with something, when they see the same activity being put into place in the future, they will start getting worked up before it even begins.
The flip side is if you can help them have a calm (endorphin rich!) experience with something, then the next time will just be even easier.
With my girl, Flirt, she has been clipped before by her breeder as a weaning and judging from the very good job that was done, she probably was fairly cooperative but she wasn't when I rough clipped. Thinking if I can swing it, I may go on and try to bath and clip (and twitch) her one evening this week so it won't be hanging over my head like it is right now!
Anyway, the responses here really helped me a lot included prompting my revalation about the fact that I should have tried tucking that nutcracker twitch into Sunny's halter vs. expecting it to defy gavity.
I know that horses do not forget much and if they have a bad experience with something, when they see the same activity being put into place in the future, they will start getting worked up before it even begins.
The flip side is if you can help them have a calm (endorphin rich!) experience with something, then the next time will just be even easier.
With my girl, Flirt, she has been clipped before by her breeder as a weaning and judging from the very good job that was done, she probably was fairly cooperative but she wasn't when I rough clipped. Thinking if I can swing it, I may go on and try to bath and clip (and twitch) her one evening this week so it won't be hanging over my head like it is right now!
Anyway, the responses here really helped me a lot included prompting my revalation about the fact that I should have tried tucking that nutcracker twitch into Sunny's halter vs. expecting it to defy gavity.
Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Okay, I wrapped the nut cracker twitch in vet wrap, but couldn't get it to stay in place. Maybe it needs more vet wrap.
I did use some of my small Home Depot clips and a strong potato chip bag clip. Those do seem to work fairly well -- and like Susanne, tried the HD clips (stronger than chip clips) on my own lip and while it was very noticable, it didn't actually "hurt".
AND, I clipped Flirt's legs!!!!!!!!!! Not all the way, just a few swipes on each. I think I will need H's help holding her and the twitches, but I'm no longer as worried as I was about it being a virtual rodeo event. I know the other four I need to clip are pretty good to near perfect for the task.
I did use some of my small Home Depot clips and a strong potato chip bag clip. Those do seem to work fairly well -- and like Susanne, tried the HD clips (stronger than chip clips) on my own lip and while it was very noticable, it didn't actually "hurt".
AND, I clipped Flirt's legs!!!!!!!!!! Not all the way, just a few swipes on each. I think I will need H's help holding her and the twitches, but I'm no longer as worried as I was about it being a virtual rodeo event. I know the other four I need to clip are pretty good to near perfect for the task.
dangerranger
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I have used the sash cord method for years. as did dad and grandparrents. I put two knots about 1/4"apart and slide that between the upper teeth and lip.about centered on the teeth theres a conecting tisue that I center the two knots on , and then tie the cord up over the poll. it only needs to be tight enough to keep it in place. it has the same efect as twitching but takes a few min to take effect. within a few min I can load, trim, or vet all but the wildest horses much more safely for both of us. DR.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Dangerranger, that sounds very interesting and promising!!! What type of rope, string, or twine do you use?
lnteresting thread...l used my twitch this morning when the vet was here for preg scanning a touchy mare so l could see the screen behind the mare. Mine looks like a big V but has a long bolt throught the bottom where you hold it and a screw like thing on one side you adjust to tighten the V and it stays on real good on it's own or just held with your hand. l've never seen them sold anywhere with the bolt and screw but it's almost the same thing as the metal V twitch with the short piece of leather on the ends you can buy..a good nose rub and praise after use keeps them happy.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
OKAY...
I have used the twiches (well, tried to... couldn't get either kind ot stay on) and I used the clamps. The clamps were very effective (see picture below)
One horse I had to give dormosedan to last year got upset when I tried to do his legs. I put a clamp (see pictures) on his nose and on his chin bump and waited a few minutes to see his big eyes go all soft and sleepy and from there, I was able to do his legs and his head and ears w/o any tranquilizer.
The filly, I put clamps on her nose and chin bump before clipping her body and they calmed her down a lot. When I rough clipped her a few weeks ago, she was a little rodeo star and I didn't even attempt to touch her legs that day. When I wanted to do her legs this time, she did have a fit but nothing compared to what she'd done weeks ago for the rough clip. However, it was still too much for me to get the legs done, so I did give her dormosedan and finished the job with everyone still loving each other.
I am sure many won't approve of the dormosedan just as many don't approve of twitching. That's fine. Not looking for a debate. I did what worked for my horses and myself and my vet is totally on the same page as I am. It's just not worth getting hurt or extremely frustrated when I can just let the horse chill out a little bit with a shot. I'd used dormosedan last year and asked my vet if there was any reason NOT to give it for a difficult horse and he told me "absolutely not". So, that was good enough for me.
The main reason I wanted to "drag this back up" was to post pictures of the clamps. One of our members emailed me wanting pictures, so I thought the pictures may benefit others who want to twitch a mini as well. I tried these clamps on my own lip and they are not severe but they are not "loose" either (if so, they'd not work). I got them at Home Depot for $2 for a pack of four. My husband also saw them at Walmart.
I have used the twiches (well, tried to... couldn't get either kind ot stay on) and I used the clamps. The clamps were very effective (see picture below)
One horse I had to give dormosedan to last year got upset when I tried to do his legs. I put a clamp (see pictures) on his nose and on his chin bump and waited a few minutes to see his big eyes go all soft and sleepy and from there, I was able to do his legs and his head and ears w/o any tranquilizer.
The filly, I put clamps on her nose and chin bump before clipping her body and they calmed her down a lot. When I rough clipped her a few weeks ago, she was a little rodeo star and I didn't even attempt to touch her legs that day. When I wanted to do her legs this time, she did have a fit but nothing compared to what she'd done weeks ago for the rough clip. However, it was still too much for me to get the legs done, so I did give her dormosedan and finished the job with everyone still loving each other.
I am sure many won't approve of the dormosedan just as many don't approve of twitching. That's fine. Not looking for a debate. I did what worked for my horses and myself and my vet is totally on the same page as I am. It's just not worth getting hurt or extremely frustrated when I can just let the horse chill out a little bit with a shot. I'd used dormosedan last year and asked my vet if there was any reason NOT to give it for a difficult horse and he told me "absolutely not". So, that was good enough for me.
The main reason I wanted to "drag this back up" was to post pictures of the clamps. One of our members emailed me wanting pictures, so I thought the pictures may benefit others who want to twitch a mini as well. I tried these clamps on my own lip and they are not severe but they are not "loose" either (if so, they'd not work). I got them at Home Depot for $2 for a pack of four. My husband also saw them at Walmart.
rabbitsfizz
Well-Known Member
They work for me, too- they are the best single, new idea I have tried, I think in my life!!!
You may well find that, by cutting back on the amount of Dormosedan you give you can eventually do away with it altogether.
I think the main reason people have a fit about sedating horses for these things is that, as with everything, it can be abused- and inadvertently, too.
For example I know producers in fairly large yards (barns) that will routinely twitch and sedate, no bothering to find out if the horse needs it, no bothering to find out what dosage a horse needs- just bung in a generic dose for that size horse and off you go!!
This is why people balk at it.
Correctly used, with sensitivity, I can see nothing at all wrong with using something to help a horse get over it's neuroses- because that is basically all we are doing here.
You may well find that, by cutting back on the amount of Dormosedan you give you can eventually do away with it altogether.
I think the main reason people have a fit about sedating horses for these things is that, as with everything, it can be abused- and inadvertently, too.
For example I know producers in fairly large yards (barns) that will routinely twitch and sedate, no bothering to find out if the horse needs it, no bothering to find out what dosage a horse needs- just bung in a generic dose for that size horse and off you go!!
This is why people balk at it.
Correctly used, with sensitivity, I can see nothing at all wrong with using something to help a horse get over it's neuroses- because that is basically all we are doing here.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Yep, I follow what you are saying, Jane. I actually had two doses of Dormosedan for Flirt per the vet. I was to use the second if the first was not enough but thankfully, it was enough. My aim was to see if I could do it without using it and I could not. But, next time, I may be able to!
And, I agree. I am so tickled about those clamps. And, I keep thinking that there has never in my life been a $2 set of items that has made me this pleased. $2!!!! And they work!!!!! If I knew how good they worked, I'd have been thrilled to get them for $200 for real!
And, I agree. I am so tickled about those clamps. And, I keep thinking that there has never in my life been a $2 set of items that has made me this pleased. $2!!!! And they work!!!!! If I knew how good they worked, I'd have been thrilled to get them for $200 for real!
T
Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too
Guest
Susanne, While I do agree sometimes a twitch is necessary for brief periods and I'm not averse to their use to do important things like running a tube up their nose when tubing for colic or other minor treatment and I don't think vets could do their job without them. However, as a training tool it is not. The reason a twitch works is because of the way prey animals are wired. When they experience excruciating pain as a twitch does at initial delivery, it causes them to instinctually shut down and release endorphins and makes them ready, if you will, for possible impending death. So I do see where Floridachick is coming from and it's not an unreasonable place for people to consider other methods, like training, to take it's place.
Alfie, my rescue mini is a total nutcase, yet over time, which something many people do not have enough of I realize, got a full body clip, including ears, without being twitched or restrained other than with a grooming halter. Now if any horse could said to be unmanageable, it's this little guy yet with patience I have clipped him and many others far worse without a twitch and they were able to learn to accept it but as I said it takes time and a boat load of patience.
I like the clamp idea and think when it is time for a twitch to be used that they would be the easiest and least traumatic to apply.
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