Miniature Twitches?

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When they experience excruciating pain as a twitch does at initial delivery, it causes them to instinctually shut down and release endorphins and makes them ready, if you will, for possible impending death.
I disagree pretty strongly that a properly applied twitch causes extreme pain. Most horses will stand quietly by someone simply grasping the area where a twitch would be applied...no extrem pain there...

And, as Jill said...

I tried these clamps on my own lip and they are not severe but they are not "loose" either
If they didn't cause her exreme pain, it isn't about to on her horses.

I do believe it does have something to do with the way the horses are wired as well. I just disagree with the severety of the pressure necessary to reach the "plain of indifference", if you will. For example, the way a stallion will attempt to bite a mare on the side of the neck, or over the withers to subdue her. You will find that both of those areas are also "endorphine-release" areas...as they are handy areas for hand-twitching if necessary. No extreme pain required...simply pressure will do, the same as on the nose.
 
Anyone who thinks a twitch is painful and severe really hasn't seen one properly applied. Trust me, DunIT wouldn't go all sleepy eyed, yawning and relaxed if he had been in pain. And, yes, like I said before, it didn't hurt me. If I had a reason to, I could easily have worn a clamp-twitch longer than Super D and Flirt did!
 
I've got to jump in here and come clean. I WAS floridachick a year ago until this topic came up back then.

My gelding HATES his ears clipped and yearly SHOTS (bent needles in the past). For his safety I used the home depo clips metal with rubber ends. He is now the EASIEST horse to clip and give shots to.

This is how I calmed my own fears about twitching........I TWITCHED myself (upper lip) for 5 minutes. While I didn't go off into na na land it wasn't PAINFUL, just uncomfortable.

Granted I am still working on those ears without the twitch, I firmly believe that I WILL prevail. If the safety of the horse is in jeopardy I WILL TWITCH.
 
And, not to seem really selfish, but the filly I both twitched and ended up dosing with some dormosedan has hurt me and I'm not exactly new to handling horses. She's bruised my leg and foot very bad (striking), she's slammed her head into my ****s several times before, duh, I realized yeah, she meant to hurt me and I got even. So, the horse's safety really is top of my list but my own safety is right up there. Flirt may be small, but she can still really "hurt" me, too. Then other times, of course, she's very sweet, but let's all not overlook our own safety and need to get certain jobs done w/o looking like a battered woman at the end of the day.
 
Shirley, I use the term "training tool" rather loosely. Perhaps I should say conditioning, although that, too, may be misconstrued.

My experience has been that a horse is much more apt to accept something if you can prevent them from becoming frightened in the first place. This is NOT to say I'd automatically twitch before knowing how my horse reacts or without first working out from his comfort zone (in the case of clipping) or using another technique such as clicker training, but if he is starting to become upset, a finger twitch or a clamp relaxes him, preventing an escalating fear response.

You say that you "like the clip idea." Hmmm...that's what I'm talking about! Finger twitching and clips are all that I've used. Obviously the finger twitching does not hurt, but I had to try the clips on myself. They did not hurt my lips or ears at all. It's pressure, but not pain, and certainly not excruciating pain.

Any tool, including your hands and your voice, can be harmful if used inappropriately. The whole point of this discussion is proper and appropriate use of a given tool.
 
There is another term for a twitch and its called a hearing aid. Believe me TRY to do my job without knowing how to restrain a horse and you would be mashed flatter than a pancake. Twitches do not hurt a horse and you can use them to help train one. I have used the long end of my clinchers on many occasions and they work just like the one man twitch. I have to be creative sometimes because either the owner doesn't even know what a twitch is and horsie is jumping up and down all over him because he has no manners [it ain't gonna jump on me] :no: or because I forgot my twitch or chain lead. I have to say Jill I use the blanket clips a lot when clipping they work great and I also have a one man twitch that isn't too bad either. The other thing is sometimes NO MATTER HOW WELL TRAINED THE HORSE IS HE WILL DO SOMETHING STUPID, I am not about to risk injury to the vet or anyone else who has to work on one of my horses. By the way Nathan that type of twitch you used doesn't fail often but when it does look out. Happened to me about twenty years ago when the vet had his arm up the mares backside [nasty mare too] and the darn twitch just fell off.
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Any tool, including your hands and your voice, can be harmful if used inappropriately. The whole point of this discussion is proper and appropriate use of a given tool.
Actually, what I was trying to point out is that twitching is not the benign procedure people often think it is and it practially, IMO, should be reserved for when absolutely necessary. Someone's "necessary" may be to keep them safe for a trainable issue like clipping or abused to the extreme as I have seen it done to apply fly spay on a horse that now is completely and incorrectably head shy because his previous owner thought nothing of it until she was unable to manage him any longer and sold him off.

This is not a debate about the correctness or not of twitching a horse. I think it is a valid and useful tool that promotes a handler's safety. To each their own and you must do what works best for you but as you said the point of the discussion is proper and appropriate use of a given tool. For those that don't think it causes pain may not realize the principal of why twitching works in the first place. A horse that can be twitched by hand has a much lower pain tolerance that those who must be twitched using the device but the reason it works is due to pressure yes, and pressure that is enough to incite a pain response for that individual horse in order for the endorphins to be released which has the calming effect. It's not my anthropomorphic idea of what a horse goes through, just the facts, substantiated by veterinarians and research. Although I did giggle to learn that some of you love your horses so much you twitched yourselves to see if it hurt. Kind of sweet actually that some would care enough to do that.
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: However, we don't have the same nervous system as our equines so it's really not a valid test to try it on ourselves. For those interested in reading the whole article there is a link at the end.

Should I use a twitch?

A twitch applies pressure to the sensitive nerve endings in the nose. This inflicts pain, which initially distracts the horse from either noticing or responding to an unpleasant procedure. It usually particularly inhibits movement and kicking. That's why it is often used to restrain mares for breeding. The pain causes a release of natural analgesic chemicals in the brain--known as endogenous opiates or endorphins--which then likely mask both the pain at the nose and any discomfort elsewhere. You will see that after a few minutes, the horse might get a droopy lip and drowsy, glazed-looking eyes. This drowsiness corresponds to high levels of endorphins in the blood. After about 10-15 minutes on the twitch, most horses become agitated. Some seem to explode or "blow the twitch." This behavior corresponds to lowering blood levels of endorphins, perhaps because the brain has temporarily depleted its supply.

Some horses seem to grow in their dislike of the twitch, while others don't. This might be related to how the twitch is applied and whether or not the twitch was removed during the relaxed drowsy (positive) state or whether they reached the obviously unpleasant point of "blowing the twitch."

So for mildly painful, brief procedures, a twitch will give some added security. For most ordinary examinations and treatments, I recommend teaching the horse to comply as we have described, rather than twitching. If a twitch is used, it is useful to accustom the horse to the twitch in practice sessions. These sessions will allow the operators to more effectively learn how to apply the twitch smoothly to the individual horse, as well as to learn the horse's typical behavioral response and the duration of twitch tolerance. Practice sessions will allow a calm and unhurried approach, which will maximize the possibility that it becomes a tolerable emergency procedure.

http://www3.vet.upenn.edu/labs/equinebehav...AQ/terrible.htm
 
Jill, I am not going to say don't use a twitch. It definitely can work and be effective. But I have been able to overcome this particular issue with all of my horses through positive reinforcement training. I don't use a twitch for any part of clipping, including ears at this point. When I was showing Alladdin in 2005, I went out and bought a variety of the clamps etc. also, because he just would NOT stand for legs and ears and even muzzle! I would get furious about it and OH MY GOD I always waited to work the issue until right before the show and I thought I was going to blow a gasket before we ever got thru the mess. I finally looked at myself and thought, "WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING???" I have used positive reinforcement training since 2001 and look at me standing there with my "arsenal." Not exactly a stellar performance on my part. Now the boy stands still for pretty much anything. Another hint for those legs. Hang a hay bag for your girl to nibble on while you are clipping from the shoulder back. Gives them something else to think about. Pick up and put down the leg frequently in the early stages of training, so she doesn't think she is giving it up forever.

Here is an article on ClickRyder that might be helpful: http://clickryder.8m.com/clippers.html

If you are interested in learning more about how I approach horses that have this difficulty, just let me know and I will detail it out further.
 
A twitch is an essential piece of equipment if you are in the horse business. I have had horses ALL of my life.

I learned this trick years ago when we had thorobreds and I had to do things by myself.

Take a piece of binder twine (even better if you have clothes line rope) as it is a little thicker and works a bit better. Cut a piece of it about 8 inches long. Tie it together to form a circle. Then take a double ended snap and snap on it. Twist the rope around the horses lip and then snap the other end of the double ended snap to one of the rings on the halter.

I PROMISE YOU, THIS IS A WONDERFUL METHOD AND VERY GOOD FOR A PERSON THAT WORKS SOLO ON THEIR HORSES.

Don't mean to disagree with anyone BUT - twitches are very ESSENTIAL.

I hope this helps you as much as it has me...........
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