OT: Fused knee

[BiologyBrain]

I'm look in into adopting a horse with a partially fused knee that has been cleared for driving and even light riding. I was wondering if anyone here has had experience with a horse with a fused joint. The horse in question was injured as a weanling received veterinary care and is now 5. I'm concerned about arthritis, pain for the horse, etc.

Here's the OT part... The horse in question isn't a mini - it's actually a Curly bc my daughter is severely allergic to horses. The mare Marie's story is that she ended up in a slaughter pen as a weanling around that same time she got an infection in her knee, was rescued, had all kinds of veterinary care to save her, her loving owner was diagnosed with cancer & gave her/sold her to another family thinking she'd be well taken-care-of only to find the mare later malnourished & sporting a nasty case of lice, the mare is now with a rescue group & in my interest. The mare is now 5 years old, has at least 50% mobility in the affected knee (right front I think). She's being lightly and gently trained for riding under the supervision of a veterinarian. I am eagerly awaiting her veterinary records from the first woman that rescued her from the slaughter pen & also the records from the rescue group as well as samples of her hair for my daughter to check for allergies. I know it doesn't matter for the discussion, but I attached a photo of her. You can see the fat knee. I've seen photos of her under saddle and at liberty trotting and flexing that knee approximately 90 degrees.

 

[FurstPlaceMiniatures]

I had a friend have a horse with a fused hock.

Honestly, I wouldn't do it. At only 5 to have joint issues and only be suitable for light riding is not a good thing at all. It will only get worse as time goes on, and as she gets older. Yes, she may be cheap now, but I know my friend poured an absolutely disgusting amount of money into her geldings hocks - and it didn't seem to make a difference at all. She eventually had to sell him as a pasture pet - and she paid over 10k for him plus all the injections etc.

You need to ask yourself if you would be ok with adopting a horse with a very real chance of only being a pasture pet. If you and your daughter are ok with the fact you may at one point never be able to ride her - then yes.

The horse market is such a buyers market right now so there is zero excuse not to be super picky!

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If you were after a very light hack (like walk around for 20mins a day) I would say yeah but it's for a kid who is going to want to do more than the mare is capable of. Rule with your head on this one x

 

[7fluffyfriends]

You have certainly done your research into the mare's history and current health!

It would be hard to ignore the possibilities here for your daughter since she may be able to tolerate and enjoy this Curly mare even with a fused knee. A question I would have for a vet (maybe two vets) would be how he/she sees that knee over time? Does the vet feel that the knee is stable and likely to remain in its current condition for many years, or does he/she feel that it may weaken sooner rather than later? That may be a hard question to answer and depend on many variables, but you may get some information that helps you decide whether or not she is a good resident for your barn.

Depending on what you learn and decide to do, it may be worth emailing Professionals Choice or other suppliers like them, explain the issue and see what, if any, supportive gear they may offer the mare. I did email them with questions on a rescue we had with severely bowed front legs and they were very helpful.

Also, while she has had a rough five years, it sounds as if now she is in responsible and caring hands.

One of those questions that can keep you up in the small hours of the night!

 

[BiologyBrain]

Fluffy hit the nail on the head about the allergy issue being the reason this horse is so tempting, even with her disability. Curlies aren't that common & the market for them is much more of a sellers market. At this moment I'm not even sure if my daughter will have a negative reaction to them or not. Once we know that, this becomes less of an exercise in the hypothetical and either necessary or not.

I am planning on going to my local horse vet with her vet records to ask an independent vet's opinion. I think there are at least 2 large animal vets at that practice, so I'm going to try to get both of their opinions. I'm not leaping into this totally blind. I realize with what I've read and the advice here that this horse may not be sound forever. However, since my daughter is only 5 and just now going to be starting to ride, the mare will only be a lead-line horse. The premium option of course would be if she is sound enough for me to train to drive so the whole family can enjoy her without adding extra weight on her bad knee. Again - right now this is all hypothetical. I'm not committing until I test for my daughter's reaction AND have my vet examine the vet records.

OT I have to say that the way I've read people recommend avoiding horses like this one after they've been rescued makes me question the whole rescue theory. It seems most people regard horses like this to be useless, but people still pay for their 'rescue' and continued veterinary care. Why don't rescue organizations save their money for fully useful animals - especially ones like horses that need to be sound? I have always wondered that when the commercials with clearly seriously injured animals are played in order to raise funds. Wouldn't it be better for the animals if they weren't in pain or kept so unnaturally alive just because we 'love' them too much? Is a horse incapable of running living like a horse & happy? I know it sounds callus, but a quick painless death via a vet sounds better than lingering hoping for a happy home (& sometimes getting even worse treatment). Are rescue organizations bilking soft-hearted animal lovers into pouring money into animals that have out-lived their usefulness? Are some of the people buying rescue animals being mislead about the usefulness of these rescued animals because of their ignorance or gullibility?

 

[Rocklone Miniature Horses]

I often think that too Brian.

 

[lucky seven]

Right now I have 2 pasture sound horses, one is my mini Seven. It takes just as much money and effort to care for them as healthy horses. I'm looking for a riding horse now and the only one in my price range so far is 25 years old. I'm taking my time because I see a third pasture pet with a horse of this age. Get second and third opinions before you make up your mind. Don't buy with your heart.

 

[amysue]

I commend you for considering taking on a rescue! I do support people with good intentions who are rescuing horses and helping their owners out of bad situations. Lots of people's hearts are in the right places and many good, useable horses end up in bad places through no fault of their own. I think its great that people spend the time and money to help them. I think it is a fascinating part of our culture, people pitching in to do the right thing. However, not everyone has good intentions. Some "rescues" are in it for the money and pray on "bleeding hearts" or newbies who do not have the knowledge, experience or resources to tackle such an endeavor. The fact is, some cannot or should not be saved. You can dislike me all that you want for saying that, but as an animal lover and avid farmer, I draw the line when the animal's quality of life is poor. I'm not saying this mare cannot live a good life, and you are very smart to ask as many questions as you can. A vet may give you a good prognosis and she could be a wonderful pet, as long as she is not in crippling pain.

I just felt the need to comment on your questioning rescues. I think some do great work, but some put money above all else even above the horse's wellbeing. As far as kill pens go...it is perfectly legal to sell and export horses to slaughter in the United States. Like it or not, some people see it as the only way to dispose of a horse (I do not like it) but I understand it. In most states it is illegal to bury them, its over $1,000 to cremate them, not everyone has access to a university or ag extension that will pick them up and many horse people do not have heavy equipment or land to dispose of them with. In most states, it is also illegal to sell a horse that is unfit or unsound for work. Those get a "kill only" tag at the auction and are not supposed to be available to the public. Do I like it? NO But is it a fact of farm life? Yes. So the thing about some rescues that really chaps my arse is this, "rescuers" pull horses from the pen at places like New Holland for $50 or less then place an "adoption fee" of $500-10000.00 and create sob stories to get bleeding hearts to bite. All the while that horse was supposed to be killed. I see it so often around here it makes me ill. These poor good souls just want to help a horse and have a pet and thousands of dollars and lots of broken hearts later, they are back where they started. I think some people have a hard time prioritizing when it comes to quality of life. We would love to save them all but some are better off being euthanized. Unfortunately, for some people, calling the rendering company is the only option and they are unaware that their horse did not make it to the intended destination.

And yes, some people have the bottom line dollar in mind and want the fifty bucks from the kill buyer. I think it is another fascinating aspect of our culture. I have never sold a horse for slaughter and never will. Period. I have over 80 acres of land, heavy equipment and the means to euthanize when the time comes, and the 50 bucks is not that important to me. However, I raise cows and steers and I hunt for venison. I have sold many steers for beef and always viewed it as a fact of life on the farm. When a milking cow cannot get over an issue despite our best efforts and resources, we call the rendering company. Its just what we do. Not many people "rescue" cows, some people around here pay hundreds of dollars for a day old holstein not realizing that cute fuzz but with a pink nose suckling your finger is going to grow into a 1500+lb testosterone producing monster beast with horns that eats you out of house and home. I think they're good people, just misinformed. It is very apparent to me that our culture views horses differently than cows. But sometimes, I look at them the same because I grew up on a large dairy farm. So I guess to answer your question. ..To each their own. In my opinion, a horse (or any animal) who is always in pain may be better off being humanely euthanized. Not everyone sees it this way, and that's okay too, every one is entitled to their opinion. I feel that if they have the resources, converse with a vet to ensure the animal's well being and do not play on people's emotions or scam them for money, then let them do their thing. If I were you, I wouldn't pay a king's ransom for this mare, it is unbelievable what some rescues charge for a "rehoming fee" you could out right buy a horse for cheaper off of craigs list. If a vet thinks she'll be comfortable, and your daughter's allergies are not affected you could give it a try. I would get it in writing from the rescue that if she does not work out, you want them to take her back. Any reputable rescue should agree to this. Set a limit for yourself, a realistic one, financially and emotionally. If her cost of maintenance exceeds x amount of dollars a month or if her quality of life falls below a certain threshold, call the rescue and make the arrangements. Emotionally prepare yourself and your family to have to make the decision to let her go when her time is up, because that is a part of horse ownership. I certainly hope it works out for you.

 

[BiologyBrain]

AmySue - I actually have the same perspective on animals as you do - I grew up on a farm too. That's one reason I tend to question rescues in general. If an animal is in pain and will be for the rest of its life, or will not be able to live with a reasonable expectation of living as intended (running & playing etc) then instead of prolonging it's life, it should be ended. Too many people live vicariously through their animals, but refuse to accept the reality that animals are just that - animals. Animals need to be allowed to live as closely to their nature as possible. Trying to treat them like humans is an injustice to them. I personally think it is irresponsible for all these rescue places to spend all the money they do on animals that have serious health problems. It is even more irresponsible to misrepresent those animals and sell them to unsuspecting people.

The mare in question is only going to cost $400 plus whatever it will take in gas to go get her. Vet bills or whatever that come after will obviously depend on luck and how well she holds up. If she gets my daughter through a few years of gentle horse-back riding without serious pain, injury, or expense then she will have served her purpose. If she lasts longer than that - great! However, I will have no problem either trying to get the rescue to take her back or putting her down myself if her pain becomes too much for her. She can join my other departed horse in his resting place beneath the clover. Then I'll be looking for another Curly for my daughter... Hopefully without an injury.

 

[lucky seven]

If she can provide you with piece of mind while your daughter is riding and caring for her, then she is worth her weight in gold. Good luck with her and show us photos of them bonding and enjoying the ride. Your daughter is probably what this horse needs, a reason to go on.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I'm still anxiously awaiting the hair samples and vet records for this mare. I don't have a video of her in motion, but I do have a few photos of her slaking & trotting showing the range of motion and weight she takes on the bad leg. I'm cautiously hopeful based on these photos and the information the rescue has given me. I don't think they're trying to hide anything since they're sending me more vet records than I requested (the ones from when she was a weanling and rescued the first time). Honestly, I do think that unless she's absolutely lame she'll be a decent horse for my daughter. The hypo-allergenic trait is worth $400 even if she's only capable of being hugged, brushed, kissed, and loved on by my little girl. Obviously I hope she'll be able to be used for more than that, but "you can't always get what you want"... ;-)

 

[7fluffyfriends]

She is an attractive mare - love that grulla color!

If "all" your daughter does is love, brush, and 'play' with her, that is time well spent. She will learn a lot and that nice little mare will enjoy life.

Good luck on the results!

 

[BiologyBrain]

I rolled the dice and got the little Curly mare! My daughter & I are thrilled with her - as you can see in the photo. So far the little mare is showing no signs of problems with her knee (I've only had her a week). In fact, without her knee problem, I think she'd have made a heck of a jumper. At the rescue she cleared a 32"+ pallet fence to escape a round pen session and here she tried to clear a 4'+ pipe gate (she knicked it with her minimally bending leg) to do the same and still led me on a merry chase for at least an hour! She's happily grazing and enjoying her petting sessions with my little girl. We haven't started riding her yet, but I will soon since she seems so keen on running around!

 

[orin]

I had a spotted stallion. I worshipped the ground he walked on. He was always an angel in the stable until one evening he decided to jump his stable door and attempt to jump a gate. He never managed it and instead ended hanging on the gate by his fetlock.

After being at a specialists and 7k of bills later he was still with us. He had a mechanical lameness due to losing flexion in the joint. He wasn't in pain but lost flexion and joint was slighter fatter than the other. He was slightly unsound. He now lives with a friend with a more suitable home with no mares so he doesn't run the fence line.

After having this experience- if it were just a paddock pet I would consider, as a riding horse- no way.

Why take on something so young with possible expensive and long term issues when there are so manhy to choose from?

As for your daughter- if a curly would have been suitable would it not be possible to keep your new friend fully clipped all year round to help with the hair?

Good luck with whatever you decide. Rescue animals usually turn out the most loving x

 

[chandab]

You look quite happy with your new girl. There's a good chance she'll need joint supplements for maintenance, but that's not too bad. Hopefully, you have many years with her without health problems.