Placenta Previa (red bag) births

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I have a Miniature mare who is 11 years old, and has had 5 foals. Her first three births were unattended before I purchased her (all live healthy foals, her previous owner found in the morning). Last year (2008) when she foaled it was placenta previa (red bag), and I caught it before the bubble appeared and broke open the placenta. I always check position of the foal as soon as the water breaks or mare is down starting to push. This year the mare foaled again, and again it was placenta previa (red bag). I was there for both births and able to break open the placenta and deliver the foal as quickly as possible, so neither of them had any ill effects. The vet checked the mare's placenta and could find no problems with the placenta, all of it looked healthy, no infection, calcium plaque, etc same as last year. My vet suggested my mare might have a weak connection with the placenta at the cervix.

Those more experienced than I am in Miniatures, are red bag births more common in Miniatures? Is it common for a mare who has had one red bag to have them each time? Would you continue to breed a mare that has had more than one red bag delivery? I watch my mares carefully and have all the alarms, cameras, etc so it's rare that I miss a birth, but I do worry that if this mare had a foal in an incorrect position, the foal would be lost before I or the vet had time to correct it. Plus it gets my heart racing to know I have less time than "usual" to deliver the foal.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!

 

[Magic]

I have a mare that has had two red bags, (both were fine, I was right there), but has gone on to have normal births since. I also foaled out a maiden mare for a friend and the foal was a red bag, but the mare's births since have been normal.

You're so right that it makes one's heart race to realize there is a red bag and you have seconds to deliver that foal. Any mare could have a red bag, or one of dozens of problems during foaling, so it's up to each of us to decide if those risks are worth it or not. Tough decisions!

 

[RJRMINIS]

I raised Qtr and Paint horses before miniatures, Never did I see a redbag till I started raising miniatures, and seems like it happens more often with the minis.

 

[~Dan]

granted im not a breeder, nor have I had a foal, I have read somewhere that red bags are more common in older mares... not sure if thats true or not then again your mare isnt very old persay

 

[Becky]

I'm of the opinion that a true red bag is possibly caused by an infection and will alway put a mare on 10 days of SMZ's if she has a red bag delivery. That is an interesting theory, though, from your vet and worth noting!

I also think breeders should be aware that not every 'red bag' you see is an actual placenta previa! I have an occasional foaling mare present with what looks to be a red bag upon first glance. Red coming out instead of the clear looking sack. Upon breaking it open, water usually gushes and the sack the foal is in presents and the foal is delivered normally. The placenta does not come out with the foal! That is not a true red bag. What is happening, is the foal has not pushed through the weakened area of the placenta or the 'placental star' which normal contractions usually push the foal through. Just a little info and when you see red, it may not mean a true placenta previa.

 

[ontherisefarm]

Red bags are more common in minis. I have also found that there are degrees in how much has separated as well. I have a mare that just about every year has a red bag. I have also lost a foal out this mare cause I missed being there by minutes. Now I just make sure she is monitored 24/7 so I am there. I did decide that after this year's foal I was gonna retire her from breeding. I have plenty of mares to breed if I choose. I dont want more than 3-4 foals a year at the most. She is 13 yrs old so I feel young enough I am gonna try something new with her and train her to drive. She has nice foals but sometimes even though I watch all my mares the same I am more stressed about her. Her daughter that a friend of mine owns has never had a redbag and always produces live healthy foals every year..Go figure. I am not suggesting you not breed her anymore, I am just saying that I decided to not breed mine but also mine is my tallest mare as well. So more reasons went into choosing to stop breeding her than just the redbags.

Goodluck with whatever you choose to do. If you like her foals than why stop ?

 

[sedeh]

Okay, I'm getting a little confused with the use of terms I see in human births being associated with red bag. And actually thinking it through they may both be "types" of red bag precentation. Placenta previa in humans is where the placenta is in an abnormal position and covers the cervical os. But the placenta has not detached and is still feeding the baby. This actually may be what Becky was referring to when she said not every "red bag" is a true red bag. Abruptio placenta in humans is where the placenta detaches prematurely and the baby is in immed danger.

 

[Becky]

Placenta previa in humans is where the placenta is in an abnormal position and covers the cervical os. But the placenta has not detached and is still feeding the baby. This actually may be what Becky was referring to when she said not every "red bag" is a true red bag.

Sandy, yes that is what I'm referring to. The placenta hasn't actually detached but the foal hasn't pushed through it yet either when labor starts. That is not a true red bag even though the first thing you see is a large red bulge. Once that breaks, the foal is delivered normally and the placenta is delivered normally as well. It has not detached early even though first perception is that it has. I think this happens rather frequently in miniatures as a miniature mare's conctractions may not have the force that a full size mare has to push the foal through.

 

[Kim~Crayonboxminiatures]

I also think breeders should be aware that not every 'red bag' you see is an actual placenta previa! I have an occasional foaling mare present with what looks to be a red bag upon first glance. Red coming out instead of the clear looking sack. Upon breaking it open, water usually gushes and the sack the foal is in presents and the foal is delivered normally. The placenta does not come out with the foal! That is not a true red bag. What is happening, is the foal has not pushed through the weakened area of the placenta or the 'placental star' which normal contractions usually push the foal through. Just a little info and when you see red, it may not mean a true placenta previa.

In this mare's case, as soon as the foal was completely out, the placenta came out immediately after it. I don't remember if the placenta was coming "with" the foal, it was too long ago for me to remember all the details!

It does make sense that Miniature mares would have less "force" to break open the placenta at the cervix, and so it appears to be a redbag, but isn't a true placenta previa. In either case I still think it's important to rip open the placenta so those fluids can be released.

 

[hairicane]

Thanks for mentioning that Becky!! Actually quite a few of my mini mares have red come out first and usually the red breaks just about the time Im freaking out and diving into the stall to help. I always breathe a big sigh of relief when the water ccomes rushing out after seeing red.

 

[Joanne]

I have seen several over the years. I have never had a mare have two red bags.

I have been fortunate to be there for them and broke the cervical star and then the amnionic sac and got the foal out.

I do think they are more common in miniatures than in full size horses. It is also not uncommon for the placenta to come out when the mare stands up without breaking the cord.

 

[zacharyfarms]

I have to disagree with the comments above that when you see red at the vulva that this is not a true red bag.

This is a theriogenology description:

"In a normal birth, the placenta ruptures at the cervix, while remaining attached everywhere else, and the allantoic (thin and white) membrane, with the foal inside, presents just outside the vulva. The placenta remains attached to the uterine wall and continues to supply the foal with oxygen during the birth. Birth in the horse is a rapid process requiring less than 30 minutes and the placenta is released shortly after the birth.

In premature separation of the placenta (p. previa) the unruptured placenta (thick and dark red) presents at the vulva first. This is a sign the placenta has detached from the uterine prematurely. Since this is the foals only source of oxygen he can suffer from hypoxia and will suffocate shortly after the placenta has detached. "

Anytime you see this you should be warned that your foal has been deprived of oxygen and watch them more carefully. The placenta should be ruptured at the cervix while it is still attached to the uterus not at the vulva. I have a mare that has had 3 red bag deliveries, two of which produced live healthy babies due to my presence at delivery and the last which produced a stillborn foal. I will not rebreed her. This is even after SMZ therapy for the last two pregnancies.. One of my vets who is a theriogenologist is also a quarterhorse breeder and has numerous large horse breeder clients has told me that she had never seen an actual red bag delivery and she has been in practice for 20 plus years.

 

[~Lisa~]

I'm of the opinion that a true red bag is possibly caused by an infection and will alway put a mare on 10 days of SMZ's if she has a red bag delivery. That is an interesting theory, though, from your vet and worth noting!
I also think breeders should be aware that not every 'red bag' you see is an actual placenta previa! I have an occasional foaling mare present with what looks to be a red bag upon first glance. Red coming out instead of the clear looking sack. Upon breaking it open, water usually gushes and the sack the foal is in presents and the foal is delivered normally. The placenta does not come out with the foal! That is not a true red bag. What is happening, is the foal has not pushed through the weakened area of the placenta or the 'placental star' which normal contractions usually push the foal through. Just a little info and when you see red, it may not mean a true placenta previa.

Hmm I have never heard that before very interesting thanks for sharing