Please Delete! Thank you!

[BriarwoodAcres]

Update: I'd had Reno checked by the vet and he declared stifle lock. This makes me absolutely SICK to my stocmache as I've gotten very attached to Reno. I love this horse dearly. Obviously I know he will never be more then just a pet as this could be passed on.

I had spoken to Robin at LKF and she told me to bring him back. She offered me a trade on something else. I thank them for this option very much. It aches my heavy heart to do this but I think its whats best for my breeding program as I have no room for a gelding right now with limited space. I just dont see how he could have went from not a problem with it when I bought him to stifle lock?

I dont know the right thing for Reno to do. I am so sick over this situation.



Before I start I want to make clear I am not blaming LKF at all. He didnt have these issues when I brought him home. Hes been home about 4 weeks.

I bought LK Reno from LKF in Oct and he was really crooked in the hind end. walked simular to a duck. Robin did say she had trimmed him and his angles were messed up. (totally believeable!)I told her It was ok, I have a really good ferrier and he could be helped. (after about an hr of her trying to reasure me he was fine LOL Shes so sweet). Now, I love my Mr. Reno to pieces. A couple weeks ago he started to move in his left hind leg that looked simular to string hault. He'd take a few steps like so, then walk totally normal. Stop to graze then walk around again and step like string hault, walk off normal. The ferrier came out Monday (Nov 12) and changed his angles. Now, I know he had a tremendous amount of fixing to do but he didnt take off a lot of hoof as he wasnt grown out to bad. I noticed Tuesday Reno was still moving like this and it had gotten worse. I chalked it up to things changing and tendons stretching. He seemed to have gotten slightly better as the days have passed but hes still doing it to the point it still concerns me. Ill try to get a video tomorrow afternoon after work. I have one but it doesnt show the "true steps" he takes with this. In the mean time, What are you opinions? If its just a cosmetic issue I've thought about keeping him as a stallion and breeding him as neither parent has these issues. A few of his siblings I know about dont either and are as straight as can be! In the photos he looks to move fine.Its his left hind I am looking




Reno8.bmp
Reno11.bmp
Reno15.bmp
Reno19.bmp

 

[valshingle]

I would have Reno checked by a vet. Stringhalt can have different causes (plant toxicity, EPM, etc) . I am wondering if what you are seeing is a stifle issue instead. Some horses with beginning stifle issues learn to jerk the leg up to prevent it catching. With all the angle changes he's been having, it could be aggravating a stifle issue. It could even be a temporary response to all the angle changes. I bought a horse this year with similar angle issues and my farrier addressed them slowly and now 6 months later is almost 100% corrected. Good luck and keep us posted

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I agree with Val, and would add it is unlikely to be stringhalt....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVaQqQp7OhQ

 

[AnnaC]

I think your little fella is exhibiting stifle problems. He is a growing youngster probably with the typical lack of muscle in his hind end, add to this the wrong angles with his foot trims and any stifle problems will soon come to light. (also travelling with 'unlevel' feet especially on a hard surface/just mats/scattering of bedding will cause extra strain on joints and ligament while trying to balance)

Get your farrier to work with him to get those trims correctly done as soon as possible - keep his hind toes well trimmed - and give the little lad as much outside time as you can, plus as much room as you can manage if you have to stall him.

I would still have a chat with your vet if you are worried or if he appears to be getting any worse.

Good luck!

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

Thanks guys. Here is a video. It doesnt show him popping as its not a constant thing. I think its a stifle issue now that its been pointed out. He doesnt do this at a trot or canter either and he has NO problem at those gates. The vets suppose to call me back tonight.

Jane- He moves simular to this but its ONLY when he pops his leg up. hes not popping with every step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFKnizFDElE

 

[HGFarm]

Ok I'm sorry but bad angles on trimming a hoof is not going to make stifle problems. The horse might twist when they walk or just be out of whack, but stifle problems are bad conformation and you can usually tell when watching the horse walking from behind. Focus on their hocks- they are weak and 'floppy'. I saw this with my vet on someone's yearling they purchased that was locking up.

The very top pic you posted of him, the rear leg that is forward appears to be at a very strange angle- the foot looks like it is swinging way out? The other leg appears very 'post legged' to me. The third pic, where he is clipped or in summer coat.... I dont care for what I see with him standing camped way out behind himself and am trying to imagine the angle of his legs if he were standing squarely. Not right.

I doubt this is a sudden problem either. Perhaps he was out running on pasture and now is he stalled or stalled at night? This would make a stifle problem show up more now also.

I would definitely have your vet take a serious look at this horse, and would certainly not use him for breeding either. So sorry you are having troubles with your new purchase.

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

He is stalled at night now but he was stalled at night there too I believe. I've been in contact with my vet about this as well.

 

[HGFarm]

Sounds like you are on the right path then.... would definitely have your vet look. Again so sorry ... this seems to be a problem with Minis that I have seen blown off with a lot of 'excuses' by others. I knew someone who had a mare that was stifled and this mare produced foals that were even worse. One or two of them so bad they were put down.... She just would not stop breeding that mare. Thank heavens that farm is out of business as of a couple of years back.

Another friend purchased a colt this year and was given a riduculous excuse and was told to just feed the horse vitamins and it would be fine. It's not. It's a shame.

 

[valshingle]

I agree, I doubt it's stringhalt. For stifles, you should give them as much room to move around as possible. In my experience, minis don't grow out of stifle problems. They either stay the same or get worse. It does seem to be more common in miniatures than in big horses. Let us know what your vet says.

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

I knew he was never straight. When I bought him, he was going to be just a driving horse because his confomation wouldnt allow halter. He was running all over the field last night while I was trying to get a video. He acted just fine. I've never seen him run and play like that until tonight. I've had him for about 6 weeks! Maybe the ferrier helped him? I'd like to start harness training but I am afraid to with this issue. He does have the biggest stall in the barn for comfort. Hes spoiled

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He would be better off out all the time, or at least with access to a yard, if that is possible?

This is not stringhalt, I would lay money, but a stifle problem; and driving is the way to go with this- geld him ASA you can and start ground driving - loads of exercise. It will not cure him, there is no cure, but it will help tremendously if you can build good muscle up on those hocks and gentle, consistent, exercise is the only way to do that. I know that maybe using him was a passing whim but you answered your own question when you said that his conformation was not good enough for halter- only the very, very best should be used as stallions, so he was never going to cut the mustard, even if he had not had this problem. If he does start to lock up then there is a simple operation and Leia, on the Driving Forum, is the go-to person for questions about this as she has had her senior driving gelding done and it looks as if she is going to have to have her junior one done as well, she is very helpful, so go over there and ask her.

 

[HGFarm]

Good advice from all for you I think... and yes, the surgery is very simple I understand. The day I was watching my vet with the persons horse who had this.... she also recommended a lot of excercise. The more the better- just what Jane says- to help strengthen and offer support for the weak hind end. I agree he could make a great driving gelding for you.

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

When i purchased him I was looking for a stallion. I like his conformation, the only thing I dont like are his legs. I am looking into gelding him and keeping him if thats what happens. I am looking for a breeding stallion, not another pet. We can set it up so he can stay outside or even come in and out but he have to shut the doors at night because we have a mare ready for foaling like last month lol.

 

[Minimor]

I have to point out that legs are a big part of conformation, or at least they should be. There is a saying no foit no horse but really that could be expanded to no legs no horse.

If you want to breed you should look for legs as well as body conformation; there are so many horses with correct conformation overall that there is no point in breeding one with poor legs. No matter what parents or siblings are, when the horse himself has bad legs that excludes him from the breeding shed IMO

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

I agree. I was just stating thats what I was looking for when I went after him. We also brought home a buckskin stallion at the same time. His name is LK's Super Agent. Everyone I talk to says Agent is "pet" quality to Reno. I dont see it with Reno's legs being as they are. Reno has a better head and neck, and throat latch but Agent has better legs by far!. What do you guys think?

Llittle Kings Reno

2010 Bay Stallion 33"

Little Kings Buckeroo Renaissance X Little Kings Electric Lady

Little Kings Super Agent

2011 dark buckskin colt 32"

Little Kings Super Supreme X Little Kings Snowqueen

Agent will keep is A papers. Reno will lose his.

These photos are ALL Agent. Renos photos are on the 1st page.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Are these two horses 'wearing' something on their pasterns? Looks like there is 'something' on the first colt in your last photo, and on the second one in the bottom two photos in the photo series of him.

I agree that this is most likely a stifle issue in the first colt. I can't really tell anything 'definite' from the photos, except that I see what appears to be VERY long, tapered top-to-bottom(smaller diameter at the ground surface than at the coronary band, just the opposite from what the shape should be)hooves all the way around. That alone would concern me.

Margo

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

these photos are the same horse... shocking I know, there is nothing on his pasterns except white markings! LOL

On Renos photos- yes, Robin had bungies on him in the photos.

 

[Minimor]

I would take Agent over Reno every time. I would be interested to know how 'everyone' would deem Agent pet quality as compared to Reno--from the photos you have posted I don't agree with 'everyone'

 

[AnnaC]

Ok I'm going to throw another (stupid??) idea into the mix! Just been having another look at your pictures (first page) and then your video and I would have to say that, nothing to do with stifle problems, it almost doesn't look like the same horse movement wise. The video shows a horse who is really not moving correctly at all - swinging his left hip up higher than his right and walking as though he has "wet his nappy"! Not the action that I am used to seeing in a horse with stifle problems in one leg. Is it at all possible that unknown to you he has got cast in his stall or even rolled over and got tangled in a fence, freeing himself before you found him - in other words could he have injured his back in some way?

I have an elderly mini who did get into a cast/tangled situation as a 2 year old in the paddock and when rescued early the next morning, was found to have two locked stifles and was unable to move, plus a careful examination showed that he also had some damage to the deep seated muscles in his back. Long story short, one leg completely recovered but even now, years later, the other still catches sometimes at the walk. But once his back had been treated and time had passed, he lost that 'waddle' walk, and has moved normally ever since. It was this experience that made me wonder about your boy and whether there could be something else 'wrong' alongside his catching stifle?

 

[BriarwoodAcres]

I am not sure if he had ever been into any kind of tangled situation anna. I went out to feed tonight and he wasnt catching or poping at all!