World Show Funding Re-Instated

[Yaddax3]

Congratulations to everyone involved in the World Show.

The word is, the AMHR-ASPC Board of Directors has reinstated everything for the 2009 show -- money, points, everything.

Apparently, the decision was made during a conference call Tuesday (Dec. 2).

This is the original post from Nov. 26:

I really don’t know if it is right or wrong?

Here’s what I do know (based on several conversations and information posted on a Shetland-related forum): At the AMHR-ASPC-ASPR Convention, the Board of Directors voted to cut funding for the World Show in Ohio to $2,000, which is what the eight Area National shows receive from the AMHR-ASPC-ASPR registries. In 2008, the World Show received more than $10,000 from the registries. (Apparently, $8,000 was the original amount the World Show was to receive, but expenses caused it to exceed $10,000.)

It is my understanding that many people who attend the World Show are upset funding is being slashed, and that the decision may be revisited by the BOD. What I’d like to know is, what is the justification for $10,000, or even $8,000, in funding for a World Show that attracts about 200 Miniatures and Shetlands when Area National shows receive only $2,000 and Shetland Congress lost approximately $14,000?

Again, I don’t know if it’s right or if it’s wrong. I do know it surprised me to hear that $10,000 went to the World Show from a collection of registries that isn’t exactly bursting with disposable income.

Also, it is my understanding that the World Show is expected to continue with payouts, which are funded by the Ohio State Fair. There are, I believe, some issues related to awarding of Hall of Fame and All-Star points as well as whether the name should remain World Show. I'm most interested, however, in hearing the justification for such a large contribution, whether it's $10,000 or $8,000. That way, perhaps I will know, as will others, whether we should be urging our Area directors to reinstate what, on the surface, appears to be an excessive amount of funding.

 

[txminipinto]

Yaddax,

Yes, what you have heard is indeed true and I believe the BOD is having a conference call to discuss this matter further December 1st. Personally, being an avid pony enthusiast, I'm a little taken aback that we spend this much money on the this show when our Congress is barely keeping it's head above water. This topic has been beat to death on another forum so I won't go into huge detail.....but I would agree with the decision to cut funding and redirect those funds to Congress.

 

[kaykay]

I have been pretty vocally opposed to this.

Now this is what I have been told. The budget was approved at convention. Then after convention some people started questioning the name of the show, the points and the budget.

The budget can be easily cut down. I will say that Marvin worked his butt off to make this a nice show for everyone and especially the youth. This budget paid for hospitality, leather halters for the kids, hi point trophies, exhibitor dinner, youth pizza party etc.

I totally agree to cut the budget down but I do not agree with changing the name or points for this show. This show imo in no way detracts from Congress and I dont think the two should keep being intermingled in conversations. They are 2 totally seperate issues or I least I think they are

Kay

 

[bingo]

The history of the show is great. There are a lot of shows with history. If those who attend want to earn their triple points they can travel to Area shows like the rest of us do.

Otherwise why not give more money to state fairs in other areas who do not have any other sanctioned show options? Seems to me that would be a better use of our money.

These people going get triple points, pics in the Journal, great paybacks and history or not it is a state fair that has held pony classes for many years just like many state fairs all over the country.

Congress has lost money year after year and yet we are still pouring money into a local show put on by a fair. Seems at best very unfair to all of those small clubs with low treasury who cannot afford to put on a sanctioned show and receive no help from our registry.

Contrary to what many will say modern ponies are more then capable of traveling distances to shows just like any other equine.

For those showing ponies a reasonable distance away they have to choose between traveling for the World Show (OSF) or Congress as most can not be away from work and home long enough to do both. Why would we not want to draw more of our own members to our own struggling Congress show ?

I hear many say they do not feel decorations are up to par at Congress as well as other complaints . Why not use the money going to a state fair instead to improve your Congress. You can call it what you want. You can talk about promises made years ago but lets also call it what it is a state fair. Whole thing makes no sense for me.

I get why the people who go year after year want it to stay that way of course they do. They get their cake and eat it to! I do not understand why we as a registry are ok with this.

 

[txminipinto]

Contrary to what many will say modern ponies are more then capable of traveling distances to shows just like any other equine.

This statement really has nothing to do with the topic but.........AMEN!! I do believe we had some MPs and Moderns travel from the west coast that kicked butt at Congress.........so the whole arguement of loosing "brilliance" on the trailer is bunk. OK back on topic.....

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Don't own any ponies, so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion. But I do

The Congress is THE important show of the two. I'm really, really shocked to hear such a large amount is going to the "world show" when we have such financial issues with supporting Congress to its fullest. I'm all for cutting the funding. Unless there's more to the story, and there usually is, it seems totally excessive to me. JMO.

 

[ahrobertspony]

Here is some background for those of you unfamiliar with this topic.....

1) There has been a show with Shetlands at OSF since the 1950s. There are some other shows for which that is also true. There is a long tradition of showing at OSF. Many ASPC/AMHR families have competed at OSF for years.

2) The Congress was originally held in Des Moines. The Congress began in 1947. It moved to the OSF in 1970.

3) Early on, the Congress offered no extra points.

4) Eventually, you could earn 2x the All Star Points but no extra HoF points at CONGRESS.

5) In 1992, the word "world" was added and the show became the World Shetland Congress.

6) Classics have been "in & out" of the show. Classics had their own separate Congress in 1994, 1995, 1996 & 1997.

7) In 1997, the CONGRESS celebrated its 50th anniversary. There were celebrations at both Congresses.

8) In 1998, the Congress was recombined and put together. The show offered a more complete array of classes for Shetlands at the time because it wasn't limited by the smaller class list a fair show could offer. It has since been expanded (ie, divided youth classes, color, leadline, costume, liberty, etc.). Since it was first held, the Congress has tripled in size.

9) At the time the Congress moved, the OSF show became the World Show and has continued as such. The World Show offers competition if the main long-standing divisions. (Example ... Classics but not Foundations ... Miniatures offer pleasure or country pleasure but not broken into more height divisions like at some shows).

10) Miniature competition was added in the very late 90s or early 2000s. Originally, it was only a regular show for Miniatures and not a "world" show. Miniatures were given World Champion status and equal treatment in 2003. Miniature World Champions have been promoted since then. (FYI ... in 2003, there were two Miniature judges & they did not always tie the same. So, we had some categories that had TWO World Grand Champions.)

11) There is an Area 2 Futurity for Miniatures at this event. The Shetland area Futurity is held there as well. (For the other areas, the Shetland Area Futurities are held at the Area Shows.)

12) Points value has varied for this show. Sometime in the late 90s, the show at OSF began receiving 3x the All Star points and the Congress got 5x the All Star points. The OSF has never had any extra points for H o F in the rulebook.

13) The show is promoted in The Journal with equal coverage as the Congress and AMHR Nationals. The Journal purchases the champion photos ... Classics, Moderns, Modern Pleasures, ASPR, Miniature (no Foundations presently) ... as well as some candid photos. Two of the three "national" shows each bring in enough advertising to offset their coverage. One does not.

14) ASPC/AMHR does grant a budget to the World Show. This covers the things like awards, hospitality, opening ceremony, etc. It has nothing to do with the premiums paid out. The payouts offered by the state of Ohio is a major selling point for the OSF show.

15) The show was originally held during the fair. A few years ago, the state of Ohio moved part of its horse show OUT of the actual fair so the ASPC/AMHR show occurs when the fair is not actually going on.

16) Other breeds show at the OSF during the same rotation as the ASPC/AMHR breeds. Many believe this gives us great exposure.

AHR

 

[bingo]

While I agree it is great exposure those same farms also get paybacks as a reward. There are plenty of state fairs around the country which offer the same great exposure without needing or getting money from the registry.

If you want to talk about exposure and PR why not look for areas that currently have no AMHR/ASPC shows or have only one a year and instead give those clubs 2000 bucks to help put on a show.

I understand it has been a long standing show that in my mind does not mean we need to pay 8-10,000 bucks for them to have it on top of putting pictures in the Journal, purchasing pictures and giving it "National status".

The answer that this is the way it is now simply due to the fact this is the way it was then does not cut it for me.

I would have to wonder why it is deemed ok to give the status and dollars to one long standing show and not to others? What makes this particular show better then others aside from the fact it is considered a "Modern" or ASPR show? As well as being located within close proximity to the Congress and where a large portion of the Modern owners who show tend to be?

I would have to say now that everyone finally knows how much of our registry money goes to a state fair no matter what name you choose to give it the board will have to really spend quite a fair amount of time explaining to our members why other state fairs are not worthy of the same.

 

[ruffian]

Hey a guy just celebrated 75 years of showing ponies at our local fair. Can we get money too???

I didn't know OSF got AMHR/ASPC monies. IMO they shouldn't get any money -- why are we paying for Ohio and not Michigan? or Tennessee? Or . . . .??

How about giving money to the local area clubs?

 

[MiLo Minis]

I would have to wonder why it is deemed ok to give the status and dollars to one long standing show and not to others? What makes this particular show better then others aside from the fact it is considered a "Modern" or ASPR show? As well as being located within close proximity to the Congress and where a large portion of the Modern owners who show tend to be?
I would have to say now that everyone finally knows how much of our registry money goes to a state fair no matter what name you choose to give it the board will have to really spend quite a fair amount of time explaining to our members why other state fairs are not worthy of the same.

I'd sure like to know the answer to those questions and hear that explanation myself! And not just State Fairs but every other horse show sanctioned by the registry. All's fair right? Never mind the free advertising it is given that we are paying for.

 

[Minimor]

I believe it would be wrong to continue giving funding to this particular show.

I have always wondered what made this show worthy of its World title, but never really paid a lot of attention until I learned (yesterday) that ASPC/AMHR is forking out thousands of dollars on it every year.

The Area shows get funding....that to me makes sense. Each Area gets funding, and that is fair. I fail to see anything fair in the Ohio show being treated as another Area show in terms of money (actually it seems it gets 4 to 5 times the amount of each Area show??) IMO this funding should be cut completely--not just reduced to the same amounts that the Area shows get. Now that I think about it, how does this show qualify for triple points? It's not listed in the rule book is it? If so, please point out the section, because I must have missed it...isn't there reference only to Congress, Nationals and the Area shows? The Ohio "World" show is none of these...

While I agree it is great exposure those same farms also get paybacks as a reward. There are plenty of state fairs around the country which offer the same great exposure without needing or getting money from the registry.
If you want to talk about exposure and PR why not look for areas that currently have no AMHR/ASPC shows or have only one a year and instead give those clubs 2000 bucks to help put on a show.

So true!!

I've heard it said that without this funding (and/or without the triple points) this show will die. If that is the case then I would suggest that those who wish to see the show continue should organize a fundraiser, and raise the money to make up the loss of the ASPC/AMHR funds. Raise the money to hire an extra judge or two (3 judges gives you the same opportunities for points as 1 judge with triple points)--it's what every show committee in the country does in order to hold their shows each year! I would think that what works for show committees every where can work for the Ohio show too!! It just means that some people have to work a little harder for the show that they want.

Wow, when I think of what $8000...or even $2000...in funding could do for our Manitoba International show--either it would be bigger and better, or the organizers could sit back and ease up on fundraising and still have the money for to put on the same wonderful show!

Yep, for sure I am opposed to ASPC/AMHR giving this money to the Ohio World show. I believe the funding should be cut completely, and I have written to all the Directors to let them know my thoughts on the matter. I would sincerely hope that all the rest of you who are opposed will also contact the board members and give them your view. Don't just write to your own area director, write to them all as soon as possible. Contact them this week, so they know your view on the matter before their conference call on Dec. 1st or 2nd, whichever day it is.

 

[kaykay]

I also hope any one in favor of the world show please write to your director and tell them.

I would rather see any state fair that includes aspc classes be given more points then take away this show. To me that is promotion and that is what we should all be about. Given what we have spent on other promotions this is not a huge amount to promote small equine here at home.

There are not enough shows with shetland classes as it is and to take away one that so beautifully promotes ASPC/AMHR is a huge step backwards.

Keep in mind that the State of Ohio pays for the paybacks etc not aspc/amhr. If our numbers decrease they can take us out of the show. Attendance was down this year but it was down at almost all ohio shows this year. Even with that there were 150 ponies and 77 miniatures. If the points are taken away, the name is changed and the budget gone we all know people will not attend and a show with a long history and tradition will be gone.

Kay

 

[Yaddax3]

Questions for people who support the World Show:

It is my understanding AMHR-ASPC still plans to give $2,000 to the World Show, so why can't that money be put toward making it a three or four judge show that would keep the All-Star and HOF points where they are or make them even higher?

It's doubtful the Ohio State Fair wants to lose the show, so can it be approached about contributing additional funds?

 

[muffntuf]

The State Fair Board hires and pays for the judge, pays the payouts and the other fees associated.

It is my understanding, and I do realize I could be corrected, that the budget given to the show manager, does not aid the State Fair Board in these expenses. But it does offer the youth awards, hospitality room, youth pizza parties.

So IMHO - the budget given to the OSF is not used by State Fair Board, it is given to the show manager solely for what he deems to spend it on. I also understand this show manager does give an accounting of his expenditures.

I believe we need to be fair across the board. This is not a fully rated ASPC show, it is rated I believe as a C show because it does not offer all the classes required to be an A show.

I think we need to be wise as a registry and club in the decision we make regarding this show.

I would like to know how we can call it a World Show when it is rated a C show, and is not a national level show.

I would also like to point out there is a rich heritage to this show, it is a jumping point for many trainers over to the National Congress, then the IL State Fair and another State Fair. So its like a junket for them. And this has bolstered our driving classes in the American Show Pony division.

I would also like to point out, the presitge part of the show has lost its lustere - this show is not held during the Ohio State Fair, but a week to ten days ahead of the Ohis State Fair and many of the ponies shown that win move onto the National Congress - so they are not there for the public to see.

December 1st or 2nd is when the BOD has a conference call. I think we, as a body, should think about all the mitigating factors, and make a wise decision regarding this show. AND I RECOMMEND, that you call your BOD member and let your opinion be known.

My personal opinion - if we want a WORLD SHOW - then it needs to be a WORLD SHOW, not a State Fair.

 

[bingo]

It is my understanding, and I do realize I could be corrected, that the budget given to the show manager, does not aid the State Fair Board in these expenses. But it does offer the youth awards, hospitality room, youth pizza parties.

I have heard the same thing but one would have to then question the actual budget of youth programs at Nationals and Congress? I would take a guess that the Congress budget for the youth programs meaning give aways, pizza parties and activities is less then $8000.00 with more children from our registry there.

Whole thing is ridiculous. So what if they offer ASPC classes does that mean that if our local fair offers them and agrees to do so for a length of time that it will get dollars from the registry?

Or more important if our local club promises to hold ASPC classes and make it more then a C rating and in fact promises to do so for the next 20 years well will we get $8000.00 + dollars yearly?

I am sure with agreement to help with funding many local clubs would be willing to promise to put in ASPC classes and just think even $2000.00 could do a lot. That would be more towards promotion then anything at the World show in one area.

If we are going with the promotion excuse well I would think by now most that have gone to the OSF have seen the ASPC ponies or the few minis over and over again. So why promote to the exact same people and audience when all over the rest of the country there is still plenty who have never even seen a Modern pony?The area of the OSF is already very heavy with Moderns there are people in our own registry who have never once seen a Modern in person. Why not have this big promotional show in a place where it is truly needed?

How can anyone claim that severely localizing any PR and keeping it to such a very small area at one show and now to even say it really happens after the actual state fair anyway, so those coming and staying are the horse people who have seen these ponies over and over again is any great PR move?

Is this coming out of our Promotion budget since I keep hearing it is for the PR?

This threat of the show dying all I can say is OH WELL! If it is important they will figure out how to do it with private funds just like every other club and local show that manages to make it work.

 

[ahrobertspony]

Clarification....

The funding for youth activities at both Congress and AMHR Nationals come from the YOUTH committee budget. The registry does not not give additional amounts. Some of the big youth awards at both Congress and Nationals are privately sponsored.

At one point, the youth committee voted to no longer give anything from its budget directly to the World Show. That was some years ago. It is possible since that time that some youth committee funding was reinstated ... but less than earlier amounts and less that both Congress and R Nationals. Will have to check to be sure .... The Royalty Committee also has part of its budget that goes toward the World Show.

The only hospitality at Congress is an privately organized event. It is subsidized a great deal by a couple of dedicated farms and then many folks contribute to make it a potluck. The show or the registry usually buy a cake or two.

The dinners at AMHR Nationals were cut back in 2008 as a cost-saving measure.

AHR

 

[Coventry Lane Farm]

The Ohio World Championship Show is a really nice show and offers payback as well. We will see what is the outcome next week sometime.

I know there is issues of the budget/funding.... but what if there is a private person or persons that are willing to help with the funding... getting some sponsors to help with funding....if that is the only issue of having the show or if there is more to it than the funding.

 

[Leeana]

It is my understand the ohio world show will still go on, as a show....they just wish to cut the funding..atleast, that is what i have heard.

I really think its the title that bothers people as it really is not a "world" show...ive shown at this show and i love it, its a great show. As long as the show will still go on..that is all that matters to ME. Just do NOT do away with it...

 

[kaykay]

If it was just the budget people wanted cut it would not be a huge deal. I have said that over and over.

What some people really want is the points taken away and the name changed. Also keep in mind this show pulled in horses from 21 states.

If this happens how many people will show there?? Probably not enough to keep the show going. I dont think people are going to drive in or send their trainer here for a one point one judge area 2 show. So in effect it will do away with the show. The fair board has previously kicked other breeds out so dont kid yourself by thinking they couldnt do it to us. And then we lose all the payback money paid for by the state and a great promotion for small equine.

I wish you all could talk to people like I have that started showing at this show when they were children, and maybe truly understand what this show means. I wouldnt care if this show was in Texas I would still be against doing this.

Maybe someone else can answer a show that has featured aspc ponies and has been going for 50 years?? Is there another one?

I have been very vocal in supporting this show. But if it ceases to continue my life will go on and this will just be one less way for me to promote my minis and ponies. But for other people it will be much more of a loss. I think what a lot of people dont realize or dont care about is the real people involved in this and how hurtful this has been. It goes way beyond what has been posted

Kay

 

[bingo]

I think what a lot of people dont realize or dont care about is the real people involved in this and how hurtful this has been. It goes way beyond what has been posted

Kay

We all understand hurt feelings that does not mean that to avoid it the registry and all the members should continue to pay for a show and allow additional points given at a show.