AMHR Nationals Stakes Classes On Sunday Afternoon

[tagalong]

Not pitting one against the other in any way- both shows are wonderful and have the best of the best - however in general the classes at AMHR are much larger from Halter to Driving I think that might make it more difficult to work out the timing and getting back to the ring you need to be at with the horse you need to have in time for your class???

Well, many breed shows with far bigger entries than AMHR have multiple rings going and seem to have no issues. I have groomed and shown at them and never saw any major hassles with two rings going at the same time. You just get good at time management and make sure you are aware of how the classes are proceeding. You can have SHORT gate holds if needed. And many AMHA Worlds classes (both perfomance and halter) have had numbers equivalent to AMHR. I think running two rings - even if just for a couple of days - works very well... and I am NOT pitting one against the other - I never do. I have just helped managed many shows and have announced shows for years - and have seen what works. Classes dragging waaaay into the wee hours because only one ring is going are hard on the horses as well as the exhibitors, judges... everyone. JMO.

 

[~Lisa~]

Hey if they can figure out a way to time driving classes with 60 entries and 3 heats + the final heat.. to work with being able to get into a halter ring at the same time with 40 horses and manage to make it all run smoothly without losing any entries due to people having to make choices about wanting to run back and forth from ring to ring with the same or different horses then heck go for it..

Personally for me I would find it less stressful to have classes run late into the night and on a Sunday at least then I can plan out my time management but.. you know what no matter how the classes run or where they run.. people will go. Again it is the largest miniature horse show in the country and many want to be a part of it no matter what the class schedule is

 

[tagalong]

Hey if they can figure out a way to time driving classes with 60 entries and 3 heats + the final heat.. to work with being able to get into a halter ring at the same time with 40 horses and manage to make it all run smoothly without losing any entries due to people having to make choices about wanting to run back and forth from ring to ring with the same or different horses then heck go for it..

Personally for me I would find it less stressful to have classes run late into the night and on a Sunday at least then I can plan out my time management but.. you know what no matter how the classes run or where they run.. people will go. Again it is the largest miniature horse show in the country and many want to be a part of it no matter what the class schedule is

All I pointed out was that HUUUUGE shows (various breeds) run two rings very successfully - and if you want to show at big shows, you figure out how to manage your time, your horses and yourself. It really is not that hard. Classes that end at 2 or 3 AM are not good for anyone... and many scratch out when the classes start running that late anyway...

It was just a suggestion that works very well for other breeds... I am not sure why AMHR could not make it work....

 

[~Lisa~]

And I wasnt saying anything different.Time management works the same be it one ring or 10 rings in trying to get in as many classes as you can with the horses and family members you choose to bring. I was simply saying if they can make it work the way our classes run and the majority of exhibitors would prefer it that way then by all means talk to your directors and see what you can do to get it changed

Our local shows here that run 2 days.. have classes going to midnight 1 am.. so guess to me it is not that tragic for a show this large to go late but that is just me. It is all about talking to the directors and seeing how changes would influence the show, show management, class fees and all involved. If it works so be it.. either way I think it always has been and always will be a wonderful show

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I can see it a problem having to go night after night after night 1 or 2 in the morning. Its not one or couple of days, it seemed that way every night in the open. The performance horses are exhausted, and the people are exhausted. For me personally I would want to be at my best performance for myself and my horse.

 

[ruffian]

"Hey if they can figure out a way to time driving classes with 60 entries and 3 heats + the final heat.. to work with being able to get into a halter ring at the same time with 40 horses and manage to make it all run smoothly without losing any entries due to people having to make choices about wanting to run back and forth from ring to ring with the same or different horses then heck go for it.."

No - what my post was suggesting is that the "INDIVIDUAL" classes, where the horses/exhibitors are judged/scored individually, not against the other competitors. So driving and halter classes would not be running at the same time. If you had a halter and driving horse that also did obstacle, you could conceivably do the halter class, take a break, go do the obstacle without having to wait for the class to be called, and then rest or get ready for your driving class.

Classes running into the wee hours is too hard on the horses, judges, staff, and exhibitors.

 

[Echo Acres]

I too was wondering how people don't think it is a big deal to run back and forth. I wouldn't be against the running, heck I always joke that nationals is a good exercise program from all the walking. But what I would be against is the fact that the all around horses that jump, drive, halter, and maybe obstacle will be "punished" at some point. What if you are first or even say third in line to jump but at the same time your driving class is suppose to go on? Are they willing to switch the order around? I can see that being a big headache for the office. Also I don't see the horse doing a very good job if they have to drive and then quick run to another ring and jump. Especially if they have a class that is split and need to go in twice.

I used to think that classes running late was a big deal. But around here our local shows have gone as late as 3am and you want to know something? The horses that showed in the morning and then late had a 2nd wind and were ready to roll. I also had a gelding who showed in halter, jumping, driving, and versatility in adult, amateur, and youth. He made it through just fine. They already try to split up the classes at nationals so the same horse isn't showing class after class and is refreshed. A late night here or there isn't going to make that big of a difference. Also for the people, unless you have a large number of horses going I don't see where every night is going to be late for you. You might have one or two late ones and the rest should be early.

What about the people that have worked hard and have a horse that will do all those classes? Should they be "punished" at a show they worked so hard to get to by making a choice in what class they can show in because 2 of their classes are running at the same time and can't be in 2 places at once?

Okay, now that I have said my piece...you guys have gotten off the subject of what Bob was asking about.

 

[horsefeather]

Well, my opinion doesn't count for anything, but I'd like to see the stakes class somewhere near the end, but not the last day. We don't live far from Tulsa, so we are very lucky, however, MOST of the folks come from a long way off and can't stay for that last day, whether it be Sat. or Sunday. I agree you certainly can't please everyone, however, I think it's too bad that the stakes classes are filled with mostly trainers.....after all, most of them are AT their job!

Pam

 

[Amy]

I believe the Stake driving classes have always been on the last day of the Nationals--I know because we are ususally in some of the last classes of the day -- AND we travel 3 days to get there -- so 8 hours is pretty minimal I think. We travel that far at times just to get qualified.

Some class always has to be last & someone always has further to go than someone else & it is not possible to please everyone.

My take on it is this -- IF you want to go in those classes you stay & if you don't -- you go on home early.

There is always an option. LOL -- we just may not always like the option.

Good luck to everyone in their respective classes.

 

[Davie]

I've been on the receiving end of some of those very large 60+ driving classes and being up until 3:00 in the morning. The horses just did not perform well in those classes as it was their bed time too. This was not just one night but several. In 08 one of my driving class literally went into the ring at 3:00 am and there were still 3-4 driving classes to go before they could quite. I understand it was like 6:00 when it was over and the judges were back in the ring at 8:00 that morning. This was the last year we had a single set of judges.

Having the two sets of judges keeps everyone fresh and giving the exhibitor a a good look at their horse. In my 3:00 class the judges were so tired I don't believe they could keep one horse straight from another which was not fair to the exhibitor.

I knew last year before I left Nationals that it was going to be extended by one day so I just scheduled my time off accordingly.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

What if you held the junior halter classes in one ring and performance classes in another at the same time? The only class you MIGHT get a conflict with is halter obstacle, since your horse has to be three or older to jump and drive.

Lucy

 

[Minimor]

I would expect that a show at this level would finish up with some of the more prestigious classes—namely the performance championships—for this breed that would be the driving stakes.

As for the question how fresh can the horses be on Sunday when they have classes on Saturday & all those days before….I would have to say that they’ll be fresher on Sunday than they will be on Saturday if they have other driving classes on Saturday (and I don’t know what classes there are on Saturday as I haven’t looked at the program—I am just going by what was said in that earlier post) and then had to go into the driving stakes classes on Saturday as well.

Once you start running multiple rings, it’s pretty much inevitable that someone sometime is going to have to miss a class that they had planned to enter….or that they actually had entered. Yes, lots of those big breed shows do run multiple rings, and most times it works, but I do know people who have been to OKC for the World Championship Morgan Show & found themselves needing to be in two different rings at the same time—it might be with the same horse, or it might be with two different horses, but if you don’t have someone else that is capable of taking one horse into the ring, you cannot be both places at once to show two different horses in two different rings. You might think you have plenty of time to get out of one class & into another, but all it takes is for the judging in one ring to take longer than expected, or a couple classes to run through faster than expected, and all of a sudden your time between classes is gone. You’ll also get some people who aren’t sure the schedule is going to work, so they don’t enter the 2nd event in the second ring. No matter how the schedule goes, it's going to affect someone in a negative way.

 

[tagalong]

I would expect that a show at this level would finish up with some of the more prestigious classes—namely the performance championships—for this breed that would be the driving stakes.

Now you see, to me the prestigious driving classes are not the stakes but the Grand Championships in each division - Country, Roadster etc.

Far more prestigious than stakes class - JMO.

Grand Champion just sounds better than Stakes.

Or at least the "stakes" classes that are supposedly the Champion classes could be retitled to reflect that prestige. It just sounds like more of an honour/recognition to me but I may be alone in that thought... you can have a Halter Grand Champion but "merely" the Champion/winner of the Co. Pleas. Driving Stake Over 34-36... how about a Grand Champion Co. Pleas. Over... and Under... and so on... just a thought!

And on several nights last year, the final class ended at close to one or two AM - MY time watching here on the West Coast. So when you consider that in Tulsa time night after night - expecting a top performance out of every horse or exhibitor or judge seems to be wishful thinking...

 

[stormy]

I also feel the parade of champions should be at the end, a finale and should not be just halter grand champions but performance grand champions as well....that is the stakes class winners. Why should just the halter grands get that kind of recognition?

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Now you see, to me the prestigious driving classes are not the stakes but the Grand Championships in each division - Country, Roadster etc.

Far more prestigious than stakes class - JMO.

In AMHR the stakes class is like the championship class in driving. Driving is very important, including halter. However ALOT of people are gone by the time the Stakes are going on and most of them who do compete are trainers, but there are still people who do show in them.

Stormy, I think it would be cool to have a parade of champions in driving like they do in halter. Problem is by the time the Stakes classes are going on EVERYBODY wants to go home. They are like ok well we will see you next year. Now one thing I do not like is the backdrop photographer closes down before the show is overwith so no one can show off there Stakes ribbions. Hopefully it won't happen this year.

 

[tagalong]

I also feel the parade of champions should be at the end, a finale and should not be just halter grand champions but performance grand champions as well....

I agree wholeheartedly- everything should end with a BANG, not a fizzle... but it seems we are in the minority.

In AMHR the stakes class is like the championship class in driving. Driving is very important, including halter

.
Ummmm, yes - I know how it works.

I may not have phrased things correctly earlier

- I just like the idea of actual Grand Championships being awarded in each driving division as opposed to the Stakes set up... maybe it is just nomenclature but it sounds far more prestigious...

 

[tagalong]

Delete - double!

 

[ruffian]

I think some are missing the point of my idea. The 2nd ring would run for a time period, not in a class schedule. For example, a ring could be set up for halter obstacle on one end, and jumper on the other. The judges would be schedule for a time period - say 8 am to 3 pm. Horses that are in those classes (halter obstacle and/or jumping) could go to that ring AT ANY TIME DURING THAT PERIOD to run their pattern. Therefore, there should not be any reason for anybody to miss any class.

 

[muffntuf]

Ruffian - your suggestion might have one small flaw - The patterns change for every division - youth, ammy, open. So unless you block out three days where the pattern stays the same on that day, you would have some switching around to do. Not a bad idea at all, but just to be aware they dont' all run the same pattern.

Nationals may have to think about double ringing as suggested. I can't think of any breed registry I belong to that runs that late into the night, but then again, we have far more offerings in classes.

 

[~Lisa~]

I am not against 2 rings going but we need to remember that the cost of another arena and additional hours for judges or well a whole other set of judges will eventually add to the cost we pay for our classes but whatever they do no doubt it is the place to be!

I think something we are forgetting is how lucky we are that we have so many horses and so many entering classes at our National show!

We are doing something right and every year more new people go to the show for the first time which in turn gets them wanting more and perhaps upgrading horses and allows them to see trainers in action from other parts of the country and horses they might never see which of course in turn brings those trainers and farms more business.

As long as the classes are large and competition is as tough as it is.. no complaining from me lol

Yes the late nights are tough but I would much rather have to many horses and classes and entries then small classes that end quick and early

I am sure there is a happy medium but I think it is wonderful for our breed that it is even an issue

:yeah