Can we see pics of minis in training for driving?

[ClickMini]

when all is said and done with a carriage horse, it seems that the best drivers have more of a "I'm the parent - that's why" demeanor with their horses. We love our horses, but they also need to follow our lead because we said so.

I prefer to make it so that my horse follows my lead because he/she wants to.

And really doesn't think about doing it any other way. But that's a clicker trainer for you.

For anyone wanting an outstanding lesson in single-rein driving, start with the John Lyons literature or Alexandra Kurland's books and videos. It is a lot to learn but sooooo worth it. I would stack the feel on my little guy Esprit against any horse, any where, any time. We have a psychic connection.

Every time I have the slightest feel on his mouth it means something. It is a live connection. I don't even have to have the slack out. I am just starting my little guy Cas, and he will definitely be the same way. He just had his first real lesson day before yesterday. He is going to be fantastic. I love it when you can get that self-carriage with NO tension. That's what happens when you never trap your horse.

Looking at the National and World show, even the big name trainers have their horses counter-bent through the corners. I hate that. When I pick up my inside rein, my horse bends to the inside and laterals over. Inside rein controls the bend, outside rein controls how much.

IMO, John Lyons is THE place to go to get driving training ideas, because his system is communication through the reins. He doesn't train using his legs. It is all from the reins.

Just a thought, for those of you hungry for more knowledge. I love it, it is a soft, meaningful, gentle, and connecting way to train your horse. I went through two apprenticeships with John Lyons' apprenticeship graduates. It was some of the best money I ever spent on horsemanship.

 

[Minimor]

Here are a couple of the Mini geldings I've been working with this fall.

Tempo still isn't happy with his bit so I'm changing him to a SS french link today & I hope it will suit him better.

This is Midas, another 3 year old gelding; he's going very nicely in long lines--relaxed and very accepting of the bit, is bending nicely. The first time I long lined him he was so horribly stiff I thought it was going to take forever to get him going well, but by the 2nd lesson he'd improved so much he was like a different horse. We've had him hitched once & hope to get him hitched a few more times before winter sets in.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

when all is said and done with a carriage horse, it seems that the best drivers have more of a "I'm the parent - that's why" demeanor with their horses. We love our horses, but they also need to follow our lead because we said so.

I prefer to make it so that my horse follows my lead because he/she wants to.

And really doesn't think about doing it any other way.

I've never agreed with that "because I said so" mentality either, maybe because I wasn't parented that way!

My parents always made sure I understood why I was being asked to do something and when we'd get to those times where I had to take it on faith I trusted that they did in fact have a good reason for asking and would obey without question. (Some sass, maybe, but no questions! LOL.) My "kids" may give me a little sass now and then too, but they're also engaged, interested learners who will try their hearts out for me once they understand what I'm asking and to me that's a worthwhile trade. Not everyone can afford to train that way because it takes a LONG time to build that sort of partnership and you've got to be willing to follow the horse's timeline for years before they're able to give that sort of "you've earned it, no questions" submission back to you but to me it's worth it as a one- or two-horse owner. There are certain things that are ironclad rules right from the start but most of the time we're negotiating and working together.

Here are a couple of the Mini geldings I've been working with this fall.

Tempo still isn't happy with his bit so I'm changing him to a SS french link today & I hope it will suit him better.

This is Midas, another 3 year old gelding; he's going very nicely in long lines--relaxed and very accepting of the bit, is bending nicely. The first time I long lined him he was so horribly stiff I thought it was going to take forever to get him going well, but by the 2nd lesson he'd improved so much he was like a different horse. We've had him hitched once & hope to get him hitched a few more times before winter sets in.

Minimor, where did you get those surcingles and how big are the minis they're shown on? They look nice!

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Finally, I have pictures of DC starting to work!!

Now, I am still fiddling with this harness- it is made up of bits and pieces of about three harnesses altogether but it just about does the job.

No bit yet, he is not ready.

(Yes, I know the breeching is too low- it was altered!)

I have others but Photobucket hates me today so I am just not fighting it!

I have a nice one of him backing- he is very good about that, does a beautiful back and a rock solid Whoa, which is great as he really is a fidget!

I long reined him all round the field today, through the long grass where he got a sharp reprimand for attempting to graze, past the mares where he was reminded that he is now a gelding (not that he has noticed) then we practised going in straight lines and minding the whip- I remembered all the trouble I had with Misty so I have started right this time, using the whip right at the beginning, instead of the short crop.

This little horse really applies himself, and he listens to me, as well, I am going to lock the cart up or I'll have him in it next week, and he is not quite ready- he has a small explosion inside waiting to come out and I would really rather it happened before I hitch him up!

On the subject of "do as I say" I agree and disagree. I want my horses to trust me enough to do something, when I say it, even if they do not fully understand why- this has always worked for me and has on two occasions, saved a horses life. Once when we were involved in a trailer accident and every nerve in the two horses (full size, Arabs) body was saying "kick this thing to pieces and let's get out of here" and they stood, for half an hour while we got them loose, because I said "STAND", and another time when my then 14 yr olds Welsh X Arab pony came over the wrong part of a cross country fence and ended up against four strands of barbed wire. As she came over the fence I heard her shout "NO, STAND" and the pony slewed sideways, came down between the two fences and waited to be cut loose. She was dripping sweat by the time we got her out, but was was alive.

Both times I shudder to think what could have happened if my horses hadn't listened to me, above their instincts.

Sometimes "Do it NOW" does not have time for explanations!

 

[Minimor]

Leia--Tempo, pictured above, is 37 3/4" and Midas is 34". My surcingle is just one of the "cheap" nylon ones from Ozark Mtn. I got the pony sized one & it fits all my Minis & most of my ponies (it's a little too small for my one fat 44" mare!).

People have said that the nylon surcingles roll forward when you use sidereins--that may be, but I rarely use side reins so that hasn't been a problem for me. I find this surcingle very functional for what I need.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

DC looks amazing, Fizz! He is SO DANG CUTE!!!!

On the subject of "do as I say" I agree and disagree. I want my horses to trust me enough to do something, when I say it, even if they do not fully understand why- this has always worked for me and has on two occasions, saved a horses life. ... Both times I shudder to think what could have happened if my horses hadn't listened to me, above their instincts.Sometimes "Do it NOW" does not have time for explanations!

Absolutely! That is the final goal for all of us, I think Amy and I were just saying we prefer to approach that training a different way. ("Follow my lead because I've earned it," not "follow my lead because I said so or else.") Please forgive me if I don't express myself too well on that subject, it's a little hard to describe what I mean without sounding like I'm all touchy-feely and no discipline. Watch how fast my boys get out of my way when I metaphorically pin my ears and you'll know that's not the case!

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

It's a little hard to describe what I mean without sounding like I'm all touchy-feely and no discipline.

Same thing goes for me....sounding like I am all hard nosed with no "touchy-feely"!

We have a well-placed "good boy" with a pet and a scratch. I'm just really sick of watching people baby their horses, and they themselves getting hurt because of it. I know one lady who was showing her horse to another lady and her mare actually knocked her down!

She popped back up and made some excuse for the horse, like "Oh, she must be having a bad day..."

If that was my horse, it would have "saw her maker" for the three seconds that John Lyons advocates if a horse is aggressive towards its handler!

Myrna

 

[hobbyhorse23]

I know what you mean. I'm a bad one for letting the minis (Kody especially) get away with stuff in-hand but even I get to a point where I have bloody-well had enough. Spyderman, my Arabian, had always had impeccable manners but one time when he was in his late twenties he spooked at something as I was leading him on the road and literally ran me over. Thank God I was wearing a thick parka because I got plastered under his chest as he bolted forward and finally fell under him when he stepped on my foot.

The parka hood probably saved me from a bad concussion and the rest of it saved me from some serious road rash and hoof burn but the bruises were pretty bad. I held onto the lead and he came to his senses in time to stop when he hit the end of it but do you think I comforted him when I got up?

Oh H-E-1-1 no!! He got shanked until he backpedaled and as I limped home supporting my weight on his withers, I was muttering death threats should he so much as twitch at anything else that day. I realized I'd gotten too lax about my discipline and spent the next several weeks reminding him that I was scarier than anything else he might encounter and he'd BETTER respect my space.

Do I love my horses? Sure! Do I give them a lot of privileges and leeway? Sure! But they get those as they've earned them and only once they understand the basic rules. They know that they're being given a privilege and that privileges are taken away if they forget their manners. Trust me, the minis are more than smart enough to understand that.

And I'm very strict once the harness goes on. No grazing, no snitching, no rubbing, no moving from a whoa, no breaking unless told to pick their own pace, no evasions, no shenanigans! I don't think many people would find fault with my firmness as a driver. I just do it all with good humor and a positive attitude.

Leia

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I hear you and I totally agree. Respect is earned and is a two way street.

I am always on top of my entires, it is the only way to be, they don't respect me then I am likely to be flattened every time they see a mare, and that is true irrespective of size.

I know people that drive a team of four stallions- FOUR! (Full sized) Now how on earth could you do that if each and every one of those horses did not trust and respect you?

If you go onto the (newly managed ) FHOTD site the topic being discussed at the moment is a "NH" "trained" (I am using parenthesis as I know not all NH people are morons and because this person obviously is not trained) idiot who is an accident waiting to happen. If you let a horse (or a dog, or a child) do exactly what they want to do, why would you be surprised if that is exactly what they do?

 

[RhineStone]

I know people that drive a team of four stallions- FOUR! (Full sized) Now how on earth could you do that if each and every one of those horses did not trust and respect you?

Mary Ruth Marks has drove her stallion and his sister as a pair in CDEs. if there is anyone I know whose horses respect and love her at the same time, it's Mary Ruth. And she doesn't put up with ANYTHING! (BTW, she is giving lessons at the National Drive right now, if anyone is near KY....

)

Myrna

 

[ironbessflint]

Well just a bit of an update...

Henry progressed to ground driving in the big scary world with no fences...and didn't care. (And not ONE snatch for grass! Definitely has my big mare beat there!)

Then on to dragging the tire all over as well. Grass was no biggie, the gravel on the other hand WAS. After a big spook and RUN, it became quite evident that he needs a bit more noise and bounce desensitization!

So we've been working on that and will continue to work on that quite a bit.

And then today after a nice session we hitched him up for the first time! He stood like a champ for all the initial adjusting, which I was a bit concerned about since patience is NOT his strongest suit. I got in and my mom stayed at his head for a while, and then gradually backed away once we were going well to get some picures. We just walked a few laps each way and told him how great he was while everything was still "no big deal" to him. The arena does have quite a slope to it, so he definitely got to pull and feel the breeching, and he did great. He looked quite pleased with himself when all was said and done!!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Congratulations! He looks very professional.

Leia

 

[targetsmom]

He looks very nice!! Glad to see the helmet too. Well done and keep it up - it is motivation for the rest of us.

We took a slight step back when I realized that Dancer did not have quite the same level of ground skills that our yearlings do. So we are now working her on just basic ground manners, ground poles, trotting on command, and halter obstacle skills until she catches up. We are also working her with the yearlings, which she seems to enjoy, and she is learning about how we train, which may not be exactly what she was used to. Still love this mare, and don't want to rush her!!

 

[albahurst]

Very cool thread! We have just started driving training about 1 1/2 wks ago. I am pumped!

 

[shelterwood]

Well I don't really have pics of my mare in training with any details, but I thought this was a good place to post my funny, disproportionate picture of my 3 year old mare Sasha in her new Comfy Fit harness to see if anyone has any immediate critiques of fit or adjustment. I tend to work alone while training my girls, so it's hard to get active shots. My husband likes to gently make fun of me for posting on a miniature horse forum (why do we marry these non-horsey people?? Kidding...sort of) so he is a reluctant photo taker, but I'll convince him. Anyway, she doesn't really have that big of a head, or that short/squat of a neck, but she might have that big of a belly!! I know the saddle looks a little far forward, but it looked better in action, not rubbing her shoulders. We also have a lot of winter wool already, it gets cold here in a hurry. Love this harness, and the sliding backband as suggested by Leia and others here is an amazing feature while driving on uneven terrain as I have here. This was also her first time in blinders, so you can see she was trying to figure out where the rest of her peripheral vision went!!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Mmmm, I so want one of those harnesses for cross country driving here. The only adjustment that I would do (may be others I don't see and I'm sure someone else will post if they see something

) is that I might lengthen the front hanger strap on the britchen so it hangs level. It seems to tilt upwards a bit, altho that may be more due to her not being actually hitched than any adjustment issue. Is your mare a silver dapple? odd lighting makes it hard to tell. I look forward to action shots... tell hubby he doesn't have to join in just take the pictures

 

[shelterwood]

Yes, she's silver dapple when not in winter clothes, and her full sister is a sorrel and white pinto with blue eyes, I'm no color expert but it's hard to believe they are related! When I ground drive them together though you can see the body type resemblance and they have identical shading/striping in their tails, just different colors. They are both almost exactly 40" too, so they will make a fun little team if I can find time to keep training them. My 2 year old Sitka (AKA Sissy for bratty little sister!) has been hitched twice or three times this year, with lots of slow lunging and ground driving. I'm no expert, but feel like I've been doing OK, both seem to have fun and have had few blow-ups, but those are probably still to come. Last week I took Sasha out on a 2.5 mile trail drive for the first time and her only objection was on a dirt road going over a large culvert with moving water underneath, but we did it with some gentle encouragement. We hand walked A LOT over the last year and a half and worked on basic manners and commands, got used to cars and trucks, dogs, kids, etc, so that has helped immensely. I used to drive Standardbreds off the track so have some basic driving knowledge and decent hands I think, but a whole lot to learn!! This is a great thread to see pictures and ideas and to troubleshoot.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Hi Shelterwood! Don't worry about the photo distortion, we all know how that works.

The next time you get pictures don't be afraid to start your own critique thread, it gives us more topics to enjoy and I won't feel so bad going into detail! The short version is that everything looks pretty good but I'd lower the breeching overall, move the saddle back so it looks straight up and down and keep an eye on the breastcollar once she's in draft to make sure it's hanging right. Even standing under herself as she is, the saddle is too far forward on her withers and will interfer with her elbows. She's a cutie!

Leia

 

[MiLo Minis]

Nope! I wouldn't ever let an inexperienced person drive a horse alone for the first time. Everyone that comes here for lessons has me in the cart with them till I am happy to let them drive on their own. Even then it is with one of my older, more experienced horses that will listen to me even if I am not in the box seat. I had a little girl that I taught to drive and she took one of my horses, Rocky, to a fair show and drove him. I was at the trailer hitching the horse I was going to drive in the adult class and I said whoa to him. Rocky, out in the ring with Roxanne, came to a screeching halt.

That is the kind of horse I use for beginners and even then I am in the cart till I am comfortable that they know enough to be reasonably safe. I would not be letting just anyone jump in with Lacey, Wilma. She is a great little horse and not prone to bolting but anything can happen! As far as using a neck rope, I have to agree with the other poster, just not a good method for stopping a horse from the ground even one with Lacey's training.

Side reins do have their place in training but until a horse has learned to give to pressure they can be a crutch that the horse learns to lean on. I personally never use 2 fixed side reins at any one time. I do use Leia's method of asking for give one rein at a time and I do it while longlining in the round pen asking the horse to give to left or right while still moving around the circle. I start from a halt and asking for give and work up to a trot. This really helps them with bending down the road too.

You might want to see if you can open the blinders on your bridle a bit more too Shelterwood, to get them off her eyes - they look a bit close here.

 

[shelterwood]

Thanks guys!

Milo, I will try to widen the blinders. They were just brushing her eyelashes a bit so I do think they could be better (the LONG eyelashes, not the short ones near the eye itself). Leia, yes my saddle is too far forward, and with my pudgy little lady's belly, is it better to leave the girth looser so the saddle sits further back? How tight should the girth be ideally? I know it doesn't need to be tightened like a regular riding saddle, but I do tighten it enough to feel secure. Is there a rule of thumb? I will also lower the breeching just a bit and try to straighten it out. Hoping to get some pictures of her hitched and in draught after these adjustments are made. Maybe I'll start a new thread then. Thanks for the input!!

Katie