Can we see pics of minis in training for driving?

[targetsmom]

To follow up on "how many driving horse do we have?" it seemed like many of us have horses in training, so I thought it might be helpful to post photos with some details. How long in training, what next, issues, whatever.

As some of you may know, we just bought a 3 year old from Getitia - Buckeye WCF Last Dance - who has been here just 3 weeks now. We have mostly let her settle in, meet the herd, and start her training so slowly that we hope she doesn't even feel like she is being trained! We have led her through our standard trail obstacles which include a teeter-totter bridge, a "waterfall", we shook a bag of tin cans in her face, led her over fallen trees (from the hurricane) and have been thrilled with her reaction to everything! The bitting rig is a bit tight so we fitted her in a harness and already moved from the open bridle to the blinker one. We have only longed her so far but want to move very soon to two lines and ground driving. Here is a photo from Wednesday 9/1 of her being longed. The side reins are NOT a standard training step - we do use sliding side reins but this set up was a one shot deal to add some SLIGHT tension on the bit for the very first time in preparation for the next step. She is already trotting, walking and whoa-ing on voice commands and will stand forever. LOVE THIS MARE.

Let's hear about your training - who it is and where you are... Please...

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

She looks great, Targetsmom. She's really stepping under herself in that picture. I'd love to be part of this thread but I can't offer pictures. Since I work alone for the most part its very difficult to get any pictures while I'm working the horse If you're interested I can show pictures of them in their pens and tell you where I am with them.

 

[targetsmom]

Of course we all like pictures, but I think for educational purposes, telling where you are in the training will be great! And any pics you can share of the minis. I admit, I had a helper longe Dancer so I could take photos!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

OK but remember, you asked for it

I'll start with my husbands pair, Red and Zeke. These are 10 and 12 year old full brothers. We have had them since they were 7 and 9 (2008) when we started their training as singles. I'd like to say they 'took to it like ducks to water' but that would be far from the truth. They accepted ground driving learned voice commands and were willing to go anywhere, thro anything we pointed them at. But... the day finally came when they needed to be hitched to a cart. There was almost no reaction to the cart itself but when a driver stepped aboard things changed. First was the refusal to move at all ("What? You want me to pull weight? No no no , that is NOT possible.") LOL, the were sure any weight on the cart was too much and when refusing got a stern reprimand they tried running backwards - soooo dangerous and also cause for some serious scolding- Zeke learned that it was easier to just step into draft and follow his nose but Red, who has always been a horse who felt inclined to fight what he saw as unfair or too great a demand, moved to rearing in the traces. OK, so not cool and since we already knew he had all the basic skills (he would even pull a drag without a problem)we really demanded he reform 'right now!' Then came the day that he decided he'd had enough, after a smooth round or two of the arena he stalled on a corner, tried backing a step or two and when that seemed to be more work than it was worth he reared. He reared so high he flipped himself over in the traces, narrowly missing landing in my lap! Fortunately I was for once not alone and I stayed in the cart while several others stood him up, sorted him out and once we were sure the horse and harness were fine, I collected my reins and sent him forward again. And forward he went. That was 3 years ago and he has never given me or anyone else any trouble at all since that day. No more temper tantrums in harness no matter where we went, including cross country over rough terrain. We drove them single until this spring when we finally felt they had enough experience to pair them up. The picture ( ha, I did find one of them with someone else at the reins) is of their first day of ground driving as a pair. Unfortunately we decided that harness (rather the collars) didn't fit correctly so we sold it, and ordered a new one, only to discover we needed to 'tweek' the new one. We are still in the process of doing that and refinishing the small wagon they will be hitched to so they haven't gotten nearly as much work this summer as we'd hoped. Still, I was pleased that they seemed well suited to pair with each other, paced themselves well and no stress about being 'tied' together. They do live together and have shared everything for the entire 4 years we've owned them so are pretty clear about their standing with each other. We have always known we would pair them so try to lead them together when we move them, usually Red on the right and Zeke on the left, which will be there positions in harness. I don't anticipate any problem with the eventual hitching of them to a wagon, which I am hoping to do by this fall, but will update the story when that finally comes about.

Whheeew! That was long... stay tuned for the story of Pistol who is newly hitched this year and Cruiser a young stallion (soon to be gelding) who is being ground driven.

OK no critiquing the wardrobe of the drivers lol

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Clickmini and I have had this discussion (about side reins) recently and we're both coming to the conclusion that side reins are the devil if you're trying to develop a horse who really bends and lifts off rein contact. She's had horses started that way by trainers and those critters are very, um, "strong" in their contact preferences and never really learn to respond to a feather touch. Others that she's started herself using John Lyons bridlework do some amazing things off the lightest of touches. I was going to experiment with it and see if indeed using sidereins would cause a horse to lean or become insensitive as some people claim but I tried Amy's method and followed my own gut and sidereins simply became obsolete in my training process. Why teach the horse to "give" by using a device that doesn't? All they learn from sidereins is that when something hits you painfully in the mouth it will stop hurting if you move towards it. That's not really a mutual give, that's more of an arms detente! Side reins aren't so bad after that initial introduction to contact but I wouldn't want them to be the first thing a horse felt.

What I did was once Turbo got used to wearing a bit I started picking up one rein (and one rein only) and holding light tension on it with my hand above his wither, asking for him to give his head to the side and flex at the poll. At first of course he was confused and tried chewing the bit, attempting to pull it out of my hand, moving sideways, etc., but I held that same soft elastic pressure without change until he gave me the least tiniest give and then immediately released and praised. We kept up that lesson until when I picked up the rein he'd immediately lift and soften to the side and then repeated that on the other side. That turned very easily into movement and then lateral movement and within five minutes my colt was doing work on three and four tracks perfectly calmly. I have video I can upload if you're interested in seeing those first few minutes. I was amazed! As I've continued his training I've found that he sought contact from the first minute and already trusts my hands as a source of feedback and instruction on how he should hold himself. Since he's already learned to give at the poll and lift rather than just not bracing when he feels pressure, he's naturally learning to bridle up right from the start and I'm stunned at how well he's doing on only his third and fourth hitches. He's already showing the foundations of Preliminary Level frame and lengthenings and he's barely into Training Level!

Turbo naturally has a good walk so it hasn't taken him much to learn to flex and bend nicely at that gait. I spent a lot of time when he was a yearling and two year old teaching him how to move in a balanced frame to the right as that was his stiff side and once he was in long-lines I had to repeat all those lessons at walk and trot and it took him awhile to get it. After he was balanced (or at least not falling in) at both gaits and flexing at a walk he continued to be mildly resistant in the neck at a trot, not really bracing so much as simply not giving. I hit a month or so then where family circumstances interrupted our training and I didn't get him working again until just before we went to the beach in August. I long-lined him that Friday in camp and noticed he was starting to flex at the trot, by Saturday he was suddenly getting it and beginning to consistently give and bend at a trot, and when I ground-drove him this Wednesday he had it nailed. Head on the vertical right from the start, taking contact, bending smoothly both ways...it's like this horse trains himself while sitting in the paddock!

He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off.

We hit a similar mild issue when training for the actual cart. He couldn't have cared less about drag poles, gave me no fuss at all about them and went right to trotting on concrete with them rattling along behind him, but he had anxiety about being between the shafts with the easy entry cart following him. It wasn't about the cart itself (he'd come running at liberty and follow it all over the arena!) but I got the impression he was concerned about something sitting so tall directly behind him. I broke things down into smaller steps and had a friend lift the drag poles to a horizontal position while I ground-drove him. He was worried for a few moments by this big tall girl right on his tail but with a little reassurance and the first click for moving forward calmly he went "OH! That's not so bad, I get it now" and completely let go of his worry. Moments later he was learning to swing into the "shafts" and gleefully enjoying muscling things out of his way. This formerly submissive colt gets a kick out of discovering he can make things move!

I think the power is going to his head.

Anyway, Turbo is driving now (he had his third hitch at the beach) and I've got some video from that drive and pictures from his fourth single drive on Wednesday I'll be sharing in the next couple of days. He's fairly forward but tires easily and becomes amusingly petulant if I push him too hard too soon. ("But Mom, this is hard! I don't like working hard!") He's also working pair with Kody, has done maybe four drives that way, and he really likes it right up until Kody trots off faster than T is currently capable of going. *LOL* I think eventually Turbo will be the more powerful of the two but right now there's no way he can match Kody's lengthened road trot and he gets seriously annoyed when Kody takes off like a rocket.

At a walk and a canter he can keep up but without knowing how to power off his hindquarters all he can do is hustle along at top ticka-tap trot speed next to his buddy and he hates it because he can't get into a rhythm that matches Kody's long strides. Pooooor little baby...hehe. He does fine at a slow trot.

The only other issue I'm reluctant to mention is that his stifles have started acting up again since he's begun driving. I think it's a combination of inflammation from the exertion and the fact that once he starts favoring them his resulting posture actually causes him to lock more. I squared off his hind toes when it got really bad and that helped but I'm going to start alternating driving days with cavaletti workouts to remind him to work those quads and move round. When I did that Thursday you could almost see him going "Oh, yeah, I forgot. I can move that way, sure!" and once he realized it felt better he retained that freer movement and didn't lock. Lots of PT in this boy's future!

I'll post pictures when I get home from work tonight. They're already up on FaceBook.

Leia

 

[targetsmom]

Leia-I appreciate the comment on the side reins and I really did mean that was a one time deal. I do NOT plan to use them again in training, and if you look closely you will see they are only attached to the tugs, which are not buckled down so they move freely. I like the idea of what you did with Turbo to teach him to flex. I may try that this afternoon....

Mary

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off.

I love reading about Turbo's lessons. Lucky you, you have a thinker. That is a great boon as long as you can keep them looking forward to work. Heaven help the owner who's thinker learns to dread work tho, if they do they are tough to out think and can come up with more unique ways to avoid work than a horse who is maybe not quite so quick. They can learn good and bad lessons equally as quickly too. Turbo is a lucky boy, he has a smart and caring trainer who recognizes the need to keep his mind engaged too.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Leia-I appreciate the comment on the side reins and I really did mean that was a one time deal.

I getcha- I'm just saying as a side note for our readers that if I were going to use them, the first time is the last place I'd do it after what I've learned this year. First impressions matter more than we'd think even with horses.

I say this with the fervor of someone who is more and more grateful I accidentally started my colt the other way because the benefits are turning out to be way better than I'd even hoped! I'm still a great fan of sliding side reins by the way, and noticed that once Turbo had a positively-taught conditioned response to rein pressure he knew just what to do with both regular and sliding sidereins and there was no getting tugged hard in the mouth until he gave in or having them so loose all they really did was confuse the horse.

He starts out each lesson light-years beyond where we left off. I love reading about Turbo's lessons. Lucky you, you have a thinker. That is a great boon as long as you can keep them looking forward to work. Heaven help the owner who's thinker learns to dread work tho, if they do they are tough to out think and can come up with more unique ways to avoid work than a horse who is maybe not quite so quick. They can learn good and bad lessons equally as quickly too. Turbo is a lucky boy, he has a smart and caring trainer who recognizes the need to keep his mind engaged too.

Aw, thanks. As most of you know I have two thinkers so I've got lots of practice! Luckily both love to drive so there is very little evasion there, just channeling their enthusiasm and making sure I don't let them go too fast so they truly understand what they're being taught. I'm pushing Turbo a bit harder than I'd like to right now trying to get ready for the VSE Driving Trials Twice at Happ's in two weeks and he's getting a little reluctant about having his tack put on so I think I'm going to go back to clicker training him for good work as that keeps him engaged and interested. After the trials he can have some time off and I'll spend the rest of the winter really broadening his training program with a lot of long-line work, some jumping, in-hand stuff, some trail driving and pair work, trick training, anything to keep him busy through the long dark winter. By next spring I think he'll be more ready to plunge in full-speed.

Leia

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

This is Pistol. He is 8 now. i started him very very lightly late in his 2yr old year but he seemed completely overwhelmed by it all. So I too backed off. I turned him out to do some growing, doing in hand stuff and just generally working on manners and listening to verbal cues. When he was 5 I restarted him and got as far as hitching and driving him once. Then life kind of interfered with my plans so he was once again turned out. This year he turned 8 and I decided it was time to really get down to business with him. I started this spring with ground driving, progressed quickly to ground driving with a sliding side rein (which I find useful for helping horses find their balance once they are responding well to rein and verbal cues) and finally hitched him again. I spent the first week walking him, letting him get the feel for the weight and learn to push thro the shafts in a turn then when I was sure he was relaxed I began asking him for walk, trot, halt ,trot and halt back. He has picked up each step so easily that I have decided it is time to start pushing him. He is finally at a point where he is ready I believe to take some pressure and really learn his job. Altho he is still very green and needs time/work and miles, he will be taking part in the fun day I am setting up for the 10th and it will be his first 'public' appearance as a driving horse. Wish us luck

 

[LazyRanch]

I have two guys coming from the same home, but completely different attitudes.

One - Rascal - was the wife's horse. She showed breed shows pretty much full time, spent a lot of money on trainers, from what I have been told, and was fairly horrified when I told her I was thinking about driving combined driving. In fact, as I recall, her statement was: "OH! Oh, Cheryl, we have spent a LOT of money teaching Rascal NEVER to go beyond a trot!"

I am certainly not an expert i training driving horses, mini or otherwise, so I am not so sure how well spent this money was. If one tells him "Step up!" the preferred method around here of asking a horse to walk, he ignores it. Maybe that is just a local command and Phoenix is too far away. If you cluck, he leaps into a centipede trot off into the wild blue. If you kiss, he turns into a millipede, the legs move 100 times faster, his head and neck come up and he locks his jaw. There is absolutely NO concept of bend - and I have been told I should not expect an arena horse TO bend. OMG. To me, he seemed like a race horse - trained to lean on the bit, hang on to it for balance and freight on down the road. Not my idea of balance and self carriage. So we have spent an enormous amount of time working on no leaning, no bolting, no raising the head and locking the jaw.

The first photo is Rascal when we first tried him on cones, head up, lower neck muscles fully engaged and trying to disengage my shoulders. Notice how short his strides are - because his back is totally dropped and unengaged.

Second photo is a year and a month later. His head is down and his entire body is engaged in not only front to back - his hind legs are well under him balancing him, rather than him balancing on his bit - he is also balanced laterally. If I had two side shots, you would see the bulge under his neck in the first photo is nearly completely gone! He still doesn't bend well, but at least he isn't such a brick. And if you could see my arm muscles (bulging in the first photo) you would see there is much less stress on them - Rascal has learned to carry himself and is about 40 times lighter on the bit; I actually only have to close my fingers now, rather than use arms and shoulders.

The second horse, PJ, was the husband's horse. They were best of buds, pizza pals, no shows, I don't really know what he did. But I do know that, while most mini people hereabouts know Rascal very well and have competed against him, no one can recall ever having met PJ. One guy told me he was basically behind the barn. When PJ's owner died suddenly, PJ went into a small dark world, I think. He wasn't motivated, didn't move out, was fine on the trails and roads, but mostly because he just wasn't excited enough about life in general to spook. So with him, it was more a case of getting him interested again.

Last year, he suddenly clicked with the idea of hazards are fun and cones are cool, but the best part is dressage. He is like a rubber band and does true extensions and shortening. He also has a very soft mouth, so pulling is never an issue. BUT PJ has yet to make time on cones! This year has been emphasizing pace. The bike computer has been really helpful with that.

Third photo is from last year. He has very little top muscling on his neck - but not the bulge under the neck Rascal had - and little muscling across his topline. But he steps well from behind; even though the trot is slow, it is engaged.

The fourth photo is PJ last week. His head is well carried, hind legs coming up and he is actually going relatively fast! This was a Darby, and although Darbys are speed competitions, I brought him along with Rascal. I was so excited that PJ was actually raising dust! He won't ever be a speed demon like Rascal, so he is in the Beginner - trot only group. But he was the greenest of the trotters. He has a very nice bend throughout his body. Sadly, he can also be much like wet spaghetti - just noodle into a puddle.

I have found the discussion about the side rein interesting. When I lounge PJ I often put a side rein on the outside, running it from his bit ring to the tug - a fairly straight line. This keeps him from dropping his inside shoulder, and gives his front end a parameter, i.e. the neck may come this far, the inside hind leg MUST do the rest. I do, however lounge in a lounge cavesson, with the line attached to the inner ring. Guess I should set that up and get a photo.

Lounging in a lounge cavesson, as opposed to snapping on the far side of the bit and either over the head or under the chin and through the inside bit ring just isn't fair, if the horse works quietly and well. But that's my opinion. Anyway, that's how I have got myself two nice stretchy, elastic horses.

 

[LazyRanch]

Oh, forgot to add:

I never use the side reins when starting horses. I know some trainers (ridden horses) who say that it teaches a horse to "work within a frame" hate that term. But I usually find those are the horses that never learn to think for, or carry, themselves naturally.

It's kind of like raising a kid in a box, then wondering why they only function in a box.

Leia, you hit the nail on the head.

 

[ironbessflint]

I've got three projects going right now!

After training countless big horses, this is my first mini and I'm just so pleased with how he's coming along! He's been wearing full harness, ground driving everywhere, and been having some weight added to traces over the last little bit. Tomorrow if all goes well (and weather cooperates!) he pulls a tire for the first time! We've been alternating some long line and lunge work to get him thinking about contact more and moving in a better frame, but he's really doing nicely for his level of training and fitness.

I wish I could get my ridden dressage mare to halt like this:

Relaxing a bit...

And FINALLY some stretch. Yay!

I'm hoping for some ADS stuff with him next year and CDEs in the future.

 

[ironbessflint]

#2 is my mom's new gelding. We've only had him a little bit and he's only two, so the real work will begin next year. But so far he's been introduced to full harness (less blinkers) and didn't care, and he's now been bitted and led around while wearing a bit. He's handling every new thing beautifully and I think he'll be super easy to train.

And the last project isn't mine, but is definitely the most difficult. My farrier acquired a mini because he was getting too fat in the herd of large horses he was in, and his previous owner had no time to work him, and no way to separate him. She's offerred to trim for me in exchange for training him to drive, and boy is he NOT happy about that! Day one my farrier said she'd been doing some ground driving and she confirmed that he knew "Walk on." He's worn full harness, so I got mine all sized to him, gathered up the lines, told him to "walk on" and this is what I got:

The first time I've ever had a horse lay down on me, and I'll I wanted him to do was walk! He was being SO BAD and I couldn't stop laughing. Training at it's finest. Wow. Over three weeks we've progressed to this:

We now mostly have go (except for when we start backing up), and sometimes steering (but sometimes turning is cause for stopping). We do have a pretty good whoa.

He'll definitely be a gratifying one when he's going well!

 

[BannerBrat]

Only one guy in training here. He's for a friend of mine. Probably going be sold this fall. Here's a video of him long lining. He's going to end up a real good horse. At 3 he's not totally convinced, but i am. LOL.



It's nice to see everyone else's horses working.

 

[paintponylvr]

I've got three projects going right now.

With all the looking I've been doing at harness, would you please tell me what you have on your mini's?? Good looking harness - appears that it might be betathane?

Very nice stretch, btw!!! I don't get that on my riding horses well and the only driving pony so far to do that is one that tries to do it all the time, LOL.

 

[Minimor]

I'm currently working 6--4 Minis and two ponies. The ponies are taking longer, partly because I don't have anyone to help with them & so I have to be extra careful with everything & really take my time to make sure they are fool proof. One may have been driven before; she has definitely had some work & obviously knows how to pull, but I have no history on her & my concern is she has been in a wreck with the cart--so I am being very cautious with her. When I hitch her I don't want any nasty surprises!

Of the 4 minis, all are 3 year olds; Magic is 34" and has always been a jumpy little guy. I wasn't sure he'd make a driving horse, but he's coming along very well. I haven't had the blinder bridle on him yet but am thinking I'll hitch him in the open bridle & introduce the blinkers later on. Spirit, who is 37", is also going very well in the open bridle--I may hitch him the next time I work him. Tempo who is just under 38" needs a little more long line work & then he will be ready to hitch. 34" Midas is a bit of a bullheaded little guy--he's had a bit of an attitude to him since we got him as a weanling but overall he is quite agreeable. He'll need to be long lined a few more times before I hitch him but he's made a lot of progress this week.

I am also helping a friend get her 36" mare started in harness. Next time I go over there I'll put her in the shafts & see what she thinks of that, and then assuming she has no issues with the cart, she'll be about ready to hitch.

I don't have any photos--Mom is here but we haven't bothered to take a camera out when we're working horses. Maybe once I get some of them hitched we'll get around to taking some photos?

I don't use sidereins on the small equine. I have never believed in using sidereins to get the horse into a frame--in most cases all people accomplish with sidereins is a headset and I have no use for a headset. Training will create collection and with collection will come the proper frame, including the desired head position.

Now--when my mom worked the Morgans on the longe line she could use side reins to achieve true collection on the longe--she didn't have the sidereins tight, nor even snug--she would leave them quite loose and then get the horse going on the bit--and then collecting--simply by using the line to get the horse to take contact & then collect...certainly not something she did in the early longe line work and not something that was accomplished in two lessons. I can do the same thing but don't because I simply don't enjoy longe line work all that much. I can't really say it's boring, because it isn't when you are working on that kind of training! I just prefer to get on & ride--or drive, in the case of the Minis and ponies.

 

[susanne]

...told him to "walk on" and this is what I got:

The first time I've ever had a horse lay down on me, and I'll I wanted him to do was walk! He was being SO BAD and I couldn't stop laughing. Training at it's finest. Wow.

...and here I thought I was the only one with a recumbinant driving horse-in-training! Your photo could be my stallion Flash, who evidently confuses longeing with lounging...he actually flops onto his back with his legs in the air.

I've put off training until after he is gelded, although he may have even less enthusiasm then.

He's not lazy...he's economical!

 

[dreamlandnh]

This is a great post. When I get home tonight I will post pictures of Lizzie and Streaker. She has been working with him for just over a month and he is doing well. He has started pulling a tire attached to his tracers with noodles on the tracers. Only think he has done is when the tire went across the gravel in the driveway made him a scoot a bit but now it is like old hat. She is hoping this week if the weather holds to have me pull the cart next to him while she ground drives him.

 

[ironbessflint]

Thanks Paula! This pony was SO anti-contact when I brought him home, that I'm just thrilled to have some real connection going. (And too funny about your one driving pony. I joke that my dressage mare has such a good stretchy trot because she thinks it's the "look for food circle")

The harness is the Mini Deluxe with the Super V collar from http://countrycarriagesusa.com/. Claudette was absolutely fabulous to work with and great about swapping out pieces and parts (although with very accurate size charts, that wasn't really needed). It is beta, and one of the nicest I've seen (I'm a self-admitted leather snob, but I LOVE this harness!)

Susanne...good luck with your boy! Sure is challenging. I'm glad my Henry is doing so well, because Puff is just driving me bonkers!

For some training updates...

Puff has literally gone from one extreme to the other, and instead of laying down, he's turning bipedal. BAD! We have good moments, but when he objects, he objects STRONGLY!

With him it's all about just getting a solid response to forward when I ask for it. I don't even much care about direction or steering or speed, I just want a good forward response. He's still a long ways from moving on until I have that.

Henry, on the other hand, is not only making progress, but deciding that he REALLY likes his job. I get him all harnessed and he just marches off, all proud of himself.

I had my mom give a hand over the last little bit pulling on traces to get him used to weight, and then dragging a tire around him getting used to noise. And then the pieces were ready and now he's officially pulling a tire:

We'll drag the tire around a bit outside the ring, but then I think he's close to hitching!

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Puff has literally gone from one extreme to the other, and instead of laying down, he's turning bipedal. BAD! We have good moments, but when he objects, he objects STRONGLY!

Man, that little guy is just DETERMINED!!

Good lord.

I never did get around to posting any pictures of my Turbo, but I uploaded one or two yesterday just so I could post them. Here he is on his fourth single drive (he'd been out another three or four times in a pair arrangement) and the first time he really started to figure out how to use his neck at a trot.

A job well done!