Equine influenza and rabies

[weebiscuit]

I have always wondered about vaccinating my horses for equine influenza. How does a horse catch this? Is it just passed from horse to horse, or is the virus floating in the air someplace? If I never take my horses off my property where there are other horses, and don't bring new horses into my herd, can they still catch influenza? I haven't vaccinated for it for the last two years because I have a "closed herd" and didn't feel it was necessary, but I'm wondering if I should go back to the vaccines. Any thoughts on this?

Also, do you vaccinate your horses for rabies? I always have because it's not that expensive to do so. Our horses are never left outside at night so there's no chance of a rabid coon or other animal crossing their paths, so they are safer in that respect. But during the daytime, I worry that a rabid skunk might come in contact with them.Last summer we had a mother skunk and her five babies living in the culvert across the driveway to the barn. The mother was out during daylight and of course sprayed my two labs! Ugh! I know that the rabies virus doesn't live long when deposited outside the infected animal's body, but I still worry about taking a chance.

I was just looking at a few sites on the net, as it's time for me to order my vaccines now, before the weather gets warmer, so these questions came up.

What do you vaccinate your horses for?

 

[Riverrose28]

I always vaccinate for the flu. I buy a 10 dose vial of 5 in 1, which is two types of flu, both EEE and WEE, and tetnis. In my state MD. we have to have the Vet give the rabies and it can get expensive. I had a weanling get the flu once and she didn't leave the farm, never did find out how she got it, but she got it before she got her shots. She got a respiratory infection and it cost me a bundle in Vet costs. I would like to have the horses vaccinated for rabies yearly, as recommended, but only get it every other year, the Vet does half when doing coggins and the other half the next year, but all show horses are vaccinated yearly.

 

[Jill]

Rabies takes 2ml for horses (vs. 1ml for many other animals). It is given in the muscle and tends to make animals feel sore / achy afterwards from what I have observed. Regarding the chance of rabies, if a nocturnal animal is infected w/ rabies, they DO come out in the day time so if rabies is in your area, then there is always the chance of exposure.

IF I were deciding what to and not to vaccinate against and trying to limit the vaccines I give my horses in a closed herd, I would opt for a combo shot that contains equine encephalitis and tetanus in one shot. I would also give the rabies shot. I'd not be as concerned with influenza, rhino, strangles, etc. I'm not advising against those shots at all, just kind of following a line of thought about what I would do if I were going to limit what i vaccinate against in a closed herd.

Good luck!

 

[Minimor]

We do not vaccinate for flu and never have. For one thing, it's a very short lived vaccine, so giving one dose per year is a waste of money--you have to give it every 2-3 months to actually protect your horses from flu. (Unless you're giving Calvenza--as I recall the Calvenza vaccine gives longer immunity--but I don't think the vet clinics here even offer Calvenza. Calvenza also protects against Rhino and is safe for pregnant mares.)

Over the years I've known so many people that vaccinated their horses for flu and then still ended up with sick horses. Whether their horses picked up a different strain of flu than what the vaccine protected against, or if they actually had rhino and not flu, or if it was a case of the horses being vaccinated only once and getting exposed to the virus after immunity had worn off, I can't say. One summer back when I was in 4-H everyone else in the club vaccinated for flu. I didn't. One night I went to 4-H horse meeting night & found everyone else had horses that were coughing and, in some cases, had snotty noses....my horse was the only healthy one there. I made sure I stayed well away from everyone else and was successful in not taking the bug home with me.

 

[Carolyn R]

As per your question on the influenza, a horse can catch it from direct contact, through the air if other horses in neighboring properties have it, from being put into a trailer, stall, or turnout wherte infected horses were/are, and even if you had direct contact with ill horses and carry it on your hands, clothes, shoes.....

I give 5way which has tetnus in it, rabies, and west nile. In my state it is legal for the owners to purchase and administer without the vet. Residents in some states are not allowed to receive or administer vaccines themselves. It may only be certain vaccines that this pertains to.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

I use Recombitek rFlu which is an annual vaccine. Its effective for the whole season (not quite a year, but it'll cover you for the effective time). I would never use the Fort Dodge flu vaccine.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS vaccinate for Rabies!!!!! No exceptions!

 

[Charlotte]

Vaccinate for Rabies. It's everywhere and it's fatal and it's transmissible to humans and is often misdiagnosed at first thereby exposing many people.

Influenza is passed from sick horse to healthy horse. If your horses aren't being exposed to strange horses (across the fence?) then the likelihood of exposure is quite small. If you sell a horse be sure to tell the buyer what the horse has been vaccinated for and when so that the buyer can make an informed decision.

My opinion.

Charlotte

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I am not a fan of vaccinating. I think sometimes problems come up that are more a result of over vaccinating than the risk of the disease.

However, I did vaccinate for rabies. I think it is effective for more than a year. And I might do tetanus, though I will have to order it as my vet only keeps it in the combo.

If my horses were on a show circuit or at a boarding facility I would most likely do something different. But we are pretty insulated where I live and my horses are not exposed to other horses much, nor am I frequently at other multiple horse situations.

I think rabies is one of those vaccinations that shoudl be done by a vet. The risk of the vaccine not being stored properly during or after shipping is too great. Also, there is an official record, then, if a question of infection comes up.

 

[rubyviewminis]

Rabies vaccinations are annual for horses. There is a new equine specific vaccine that I have not looked at that possible could be recommended for more 3 years but I doubt it. As said already, ALWAYS vaccinate for rabies. Rabies can be transmitted 3 ways, is deadly to all animals and people and is definitely misdiagnosed in horses when it does happen. In Colorado it is now known to have been carried to the front range in bats I believe (will have to read that again).

Here I have to fight the veterinarians to get my horses vaccinated since they haven't found it endemic in the wild populations. I don't care. This is a huge county and there is a definite lack of DOW people, animal control (only 1 ), and its very remote in most of the county. So in my opinion how do they know for sure just because they haven't found any bats, skunks, fox or other species dead or dying of rabies? Once you see how horrible and deadly rabies is, and how easily it can be transmitted, you will not hesitate to vaccinate when it is so inexpensive and cheap insurance.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I think vaccinations are like insurance. It may not return 100% of what you invested in it, but it'll keep you from going broke if you do need it.

I think each animal should be vaccinated according to it's relative risk. Frankly rhino causes more respiratory disease than does flu about 3:1.

Rabies is different. It's for human safety not animal.

For stay at home horses I encourage:

East. Encephalitis.

West. Encephalitis.

Tetanus.

West Nile.

Potomac Fever.

Rabies.

Dr Taylor

 

[Eohippus]

I travel with my guys a lot so I try to get them pretty much everything as they can be termed "high risk" and with seniors on the property who don't receive all their vaccines any more its key that all the younger horses do to try and help protect those older guys.

Rabies is one that I make sure every animal I have that might need a rabies shot and can receive one, has gotten one. As my vet said with horses, think about how much you really do deal with their saliva (bits, treats, water, etc) it can be dangerous

 

[Matt73]

I usually vaccinate using a 4-way (flu, EEE, WEE, and tetanus). My girls stay on the property and no other horses come on the property. If I were showing, I'd add rhino.

 

[weebiscuit]

We do not vaccinate for flu and never have. For one thing, it's a very short lived vaccine, so giving one dose per year is a waste of money--you have to give it every 2-3 months to actually protect your horses from flu.

This was kind of my thoughts on the flu vaccine as well.

 

[weebiscuit]

Rabies takes 2ml for horses (vs. 1ml for many other animals). It is given in the muscle and tends to make animals feel sore / achy afterwards from what I have observed. Regarding the chance of rabies, if a nocturnal animal is infected w/ rabies, they DO come out in the day time so if rabies is in your area, then there is always the chance of exposure.

IF I were deciding what to and not to vaccinate against and trying to limit the vaccines I give my horses in a closed herd, I would opt for a combo shot that contains equine encephalitis and tetanus in one shot. I would also give the rabies shot. I'd not be as concerned with influenza, rhino, strangles, etc. I'm not advising against those shots at all, just kind of following a line of thought about what I would do if I were going to limit what i vaccinate against in a closed herd.

I'm sort of in agreement here. I'm heavily leaning towards just the EWT and rabies, and most likely west nile. That's a more expensive vaccine, too!

Why is it that dogs and cats are now required to have a rabies shot only once every three years, but we are still supposed to give them to horses yearly? Isn't there a titer test of some sort than can be done on a horse after two years to see what level of protection they have?

 

[weebiscuit]

Vaccinate for Rabies. It's everywhere and it's fatal and it's transmissible to humans and is often misdiagnosed at first thereby exposing many people.

Influenza is passed from sick horse to healthy horse. If your horses aren't being exposed to strange horses (across the fence?) then the likelihood of exposure is quite small. If you sell a horse be sure to tell the buyer what the horse has been vaccinated for and when so that the buyer can make an informed decision.

Charlotte

Hi Charlotte! So nice to see you! And yes, I always have and always will vaccinate for rabies! There's just too much of it in the wild around here. My barn cats also get their rabies vaccines!

And no, there's no other horses over any fences. No cows, pigs or other livestock either.

 

[weebiscuit]

I think rabies is one of those vaccinations that shoudl be done by a vet. The risk of the vaccine not being stored properly during or after shipping is too great. Also, there is an official record, then, if a question of infection comes up.

I don't agree. I order all my vaccines in late February, so they are shipped when it's cold outside.They are also boxed with ice packs when shipped. I think that when a vet orders his rabies supply he faces the same shipping as a consumer would. I wouldn't necessarily think his would arrive in his office any faster than mine arrive at home. I wouldn't order them during warm months. Then they go right into the fridge until I use them. rabies vaccines get done the first week of March, EWT and West Nile get done the first week of May.

 

[weebiscuit]

I think vaccinations are like insurance. It may not return 100% of what you invested in it, but it'll keep you from going broke if you do need it.

I think each animal should be vaccinated according to it's relative risk. Frankly rhino causes more respiratory disease than does flu about 3:1.

Rabies is different. It's for human safety not animal.

For stay at home horses I encourage:

East. Encephalitis.

West. Encephalitis.

Tetanus.

West Nile.

Potomac Fever.

Rabies.

Dr Taylor

 

[ohmt]

The horses we have here don't go off the farm and we very rarely have any new horses coming in. We give tetanus and rabies vaccines to everyone (definitely tetanus as that can up from the ground after a lot of rain and if your horse has a sore or cut can get it!). If we sell a horse the horse gets a 5 way, especially if they will be shipped a long distance. This year we'll be showing and all of the show horses will be getting 5 way and all of our horses at home will be getting 3 way as precaution.

 

[weebiscuit]

When I asked two different vets in our area, neither seemed to think vaccinating against PHF was all that important. I used to vaccinate for it every year, except I didn't last year, since the two vets weren't concerned about it. They both said my horses aren't at risk. They said there are relatively few cases of it in Wisconsin. Also, my horses are in stalls in a locked barn at night with no lights that might attract the mayflies. Our hay is all stored inside the barn, and we don't live close to any natural water sources. They also said that if they did come down with it, the treatment was oxytetracycline IV, and horses will almost always fully recover from it, unless they have a badly compromised system to start with.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

When I asked two different vets in our area, neither seemed to think vaccinating against PHF was all that important. I used to vaccinate for it every year, except I didn't last year, since the two vets weren't concerned about it. They both said my horses aren't at risk. They said there are relatively few cases of it in Wisconsin. Also, my horses are in stalls in a locked barn at night with no lights that might attract the mayflies. Our hay is all stored inside the barn, and we don't live close to any natural water sources. They also said that if they did come down with it, the treatment was oxytetracycline IV, and horses will almost always fully recover from it, unless they have a badly compromised system to start with.

PHF is absolutely an area concern. In my practice we vaccinate horses north and west of my clinic and rarely do those south and east. The nature of the bacteria that causes it makes it difficult to create a vaccine against it so vaccination does not produce a great immunity and in endemic areas the vaccine should be given twice/year.

I would like you to talk to your Vets again, as the information you give for mortality and severity is far from what the literature reports. I think there may have been an error in communication. Mortality is usually reported as 10-30%. Oxytetracycline is relatively cheap, but if IV fluids and hospitalization are required, then costs can quickly swell. Oxytetracycline IV can also lead to catastrophic reactions and I have killed a horse with Oxytetracycline.

I did my intership in Janesville, WI and I remember a summer filled with PHF cases, but WI is a big state.

Not vaccinating may still be the right/reasonable choice, but I want you to make that decision with the best information available.

Dr Taylor