Gay marriage - taking a step away from progress

[Mona]

GREAT post Ashley!

 

[tagalong]

I am sure that was just a joke, no one would actually believe the earth is only 7000 years old, right?

Actually, many creationists think it is only 6,000 years old. Ignore all that scientific stuff about carbon dating, rock formation, fossils, continental drift etc. etc.

The Bible is not a text book and yes, I have read it. When I had to sit with my sister through long church services while my parents sang in the choir, it was the only thing to read.

I can recite all the smutty parts in the Old Testament to you (and there are a lot of them) and all the bizarre laws. It has been written and re-written and retranslated through the ages... the "original" Greek or Aramaic version would likely bear very little resemblance to what we read today. Every translation felt they had to tweak something. At some points, entire books were left out/omitted. It is not the word of God but the words of all those who contributed to it. It may be a good learning resource by way of stories and parables and lines up with some history at certain points - but it is not an encyclopedic text with dates that can be checked when it comes to The Beginning.

So yes, the Bible is a bit "rusty". NOWHERE in that "rusty" Bible does it say the earth began at a particular point in time - so how on earth do Creationists come up with 6,000 or 7,000 years? The same way Harold Camping figured out that the world was coming to an end on May 21, 2011. Whoops.

Evolution does happen and maybe intelligent design had a hand in it if you believe in such things but it does not happen overnight - which is what 6,000 years amounts to in the age of the earth.

As far as a missing link goes - look up Lucy. Or the more recently discovered one whose "name" escapes me at the moment...

Or look up Australopithecus.

What really intriged me was that supposedly it had erupted twice in it's existance..how they determined that I don't know. Was there was a reporter there when it happened?

How they determine a lot of that is by geological changes and features. The sedimentary layer samples as well as the igneous and metamorphic rock layers. There may not have been a reporter there but the evidence was left behind.

 

[Jill]

As I've said, I support equal rights for all committed couples... however:

LB is known to be a liberal "hangout", and so often the stereotypical liberal personality is showcased here. Tolerance for everyone, except for those who don't share "the" liberal point of view.

I can't help but notice the intolerance shown by many of you "screaming" that you can't stand the intolerance of others. We all have a right to, and valid reasons for, our own opinions. It's pretty ironic, really, when "you" compare your own words with your actual acceptance of others.

... Kind of a spin on Animal Farm? "Acceptance for all, but some are more acceptable than others."

 

[lil hoofbeats]

I can't help but notice the intolerance in many of you "screaming" that you can't stand the intolerance of others. We all have a right to, and valid reasons for, our own opinions. It's pretty ironic, really, when "you" compare your own words with your actual acceptance of others.

Not true Jill!!!

Like i said i detest your belief, but i care about you.

I just cannot believe this beautiful , wonderful world of ours, that we should diminish it, with the invention of cheap man made myths! Maybe you dont want to hear the truth because you dont want your illusions destroyed.

 

[Jill]

Not true Jill!!!

Like i said i detest your belief, but i care about you.

I just cannot believe this beautiful , wonderful world of ours, that we should diminish it, with the invention of cheap man made myths! Maybe you dont want to heart the truth because you dont want your illusions destroyed.

What belief of mine do you detest? Because I thought we actually both felt marriage should be an option for all couples who desire it...

 

[ozymandias]

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

I would also propose and promote once again an amendment to the constitution to define marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman.

- Mitt Romney 2012.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Why do some want to make this a liberal versus a conservative issue? It is not nor should your politicians either side use this to polarize voters. I find this sickening, truly.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Either you uphold your Constitution and believe the words that were written so long ago or your are just paying lip service to applying it to certain segments of your population which makes it hypocritical.

I ask again, why are people so scared of granting the right of "marriage" to gay and lesbians? I am truly trying to understand those that are so opposed. How does or will it affect your life personally? It doesn't and it won't! Please don' t politicies this, this is a humanitarian issue. Those of us who are in heterosexual marriages should not have a holier than thou attitude because so many heterosexual marriages today end in divorce.

 

[ozymandias]

Why do some want to make this a liberal versus a conservative issue? It is not nor should your politicians either side use this to polarize voters. I find this sickening, truly.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Either you uphold your Constitution and believe the words that were written so long ago or your are just paying lip service to applying it to certain segments of your population which makes it hypocritical.

I ask again, why are people so scared of granting the right of "marriage" to gay and lesbians? I am truly trying to understand those that are so opposed. How does or will it affect your life personally? It doesn't and it won't! Please don' t politicies this, this is a humanitarian issue. Those of us who are in heterosexual marriages should not have a holier than thou attitude because so many heterosexual marriages today end in divorce.

Well written Danielle.

I believe the majority of not all of the people who are against it are against it based solely on their religion. The bible makes it very clear, there are no gray areas, where the god of the bible stands on homosexuality (as opposed to all of the thousands of other gods that have come and gone over time) this particular god says homosexuality is a sin and that's why the religious are prepared to vote accordingly.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Ashley, I wish I could give you a big hug. I am so sorry that you have to defend your lifestyle and motherhood and have been made to feel, at some point in your life, as less than a good mother, partner, sister, daughter, based on your sexual orientation. It truly boggles my mind at the cruelty in this world and yet those that have made you feel this way are the bigots and hypocrites in this world. They think they are perfect when in fact that is probably the furthest from reality and the truth. Hold your head up high my dear and never allow these individuals to make you feel any less worthy.

 

[KanoasDestiny]

I am a good person...I don't steal and I try not to lie, I have a job and pay taxes, I treat others fairly and don't pass judgement on to them or their lifestyles, I donate to charities and hold the door open for those behind me, I have never done drugs or been arrested...that's all someone needs to know about me. Who I love or sleep with is not important, and does not affect the member of society I am.

 

[jyuukai]

At least I'm not the only lesbian here. +1 Ashley! I am sorry you've had a generally bad experience with not being accepted though, I've always been so spoiled by acceptance. It blows my mind when people judge me now haha

 

[Danielle_E.]

And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

If I look at the above I see that most of humanity has fallen short of these commandments

I am a non-practicing catholic by choice now. I could not in good conscience follow leaders that are suppose to be God's representatives when so many abhorrent things have been done.

If you look at one commandment alone, about having idols so much of humankind has fallen short! How many of us who consider ourselves Christian have broken the commandment about the sabbath? and yet we have the audacity to judge homosexuals and lesbians? What gives us the right to do so, because we follow our faith to the letter? Or do we just pick and choose from scripture and interpret it so that we give ourselves the right to judge others but not look at our own lives and actions?

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

As I've said, I support equal rights for all committed couples... however:

LB is known to be a liberal "hangout", and so often the stereotypical liberal personality is showcased here. Tolerance for everyone, except for those who don't share "the" liberal point of view.

I can't help but notice the intolerance shown by many of you "screaming" that you can't stand the intolerance of others. We all have a right to, and valid reasons for, our own opinions. It's pretty ironic, really, when "you" compare your own words with your actual acceptance of others.

... Kind of a spin on Animal Farm? "Acceptance for all, but some are more acceptable than others."

Had a surgery cancel at the last minute this morning, so I had some free time on my hands.

I appreciated your post and reread this thread as well. I decided to list all of the 'less than positive' ways folks here have chosen to describe people who don't agree with them.

Disgusted, backwards, masses, sheep, hatred, dark ages, many uncomplimentary things about North Carolina residents, cult, discrimination, hetero-sexist pig, pig southern state, pig headed, hate, anti-gay, evil, unevolved, burning witches, intolerant, brain washed, spewing hate, follow blindly, bully, afraid, insecure, kool-aid drinker, rusty, ridiculous, absurd, smutty, bizarre, holier than though, scared.

I understand many awful things have been said to and about homosexuals. I abhor it and I am sorry about it.

But, I don't believe either myself or others on this forum have said unkind things. If you want to convince someone, I would encourage you to not resort to name calling.

My concern with gay marriage is the slippery slope argument. If the arguments for gay marriage are love is love, stay out of people's bedroom/personal life, and it doesn't hurt anybody; then why wouldn't those arguments apply to the polygamist, or the parent/adult child, or siblings? Along with that, why does marriage discriminate against the poor? Shouldn't it be free with no restrictions or requirements?

Dr Taylor

 

[ozymandias]

My concern with gay marriage is the slippery slope argument. If the arguments for gay marriage are love is love, stay out of people's bedroom/personal life, and it doesn't hurt anybody; then why wouldn't those arguments apply to the polygamist, or the parent/adult child, or siblings?

Hey I hear ya dude, because we all know that we don't have any of those issues now with only heterosexual marriages being allowed and those gays are a slippery not to be trusted group just like polygamists and pedophiles they're grouped with, in fact they may all be in cahoots, you never know Better keep the gay people as far away from being able to marry as possible so we don't get the sheep shaggers trying to follow suit.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

How many of us who consider ourselves Christian have broken the commandment about the sabbath? and yet we have the audacity to judge homosexuals and lesbians? What gives us the right to do so, because we follow our faith to the letter? Or do we just pick and choose from scripture and interpret it so that we give ourselves the right to judge others but not look at our own lives and actions?

Now thats what im scream'in!!!!!

I believe the majority of not all of the people who are against it are against it based solely on their religion.

Religion has slowed down all moral progress for centuries, and claims to be the cornerstone for morality.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism is a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that " my ignorance is as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

 

[ozymandias]

Now thats what im scream'in!!!!!

Religion has slowed down all moral progress for centuries, and claims to be the cornerstone for morality.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism is a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that " my ignorance is as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

 

[tagalong]

Tolerance for everyone, except for those who don't share "the" liberal point of view.

I can't help but notice the intolerance shown by many of you "screaming" that you can't stand the intolerance of others. We all have a right to, and valid reasons for, our own opinions. It's pretty ironic, really, when "you" compare your own words with your actual acceptance of others.

Once again - making blanket statements and/or suggesting that all the Liberals here have no tolerance for those who do not share a liberal point of view is completely inaccurate.

Show me where "many" of us have "screamed". I have seen you, Jill , go after others in a nasty enough way in the past that entire threads were deleted and sucked into the void and the entire topic of Politics was banned for a long time

... there was not a lot of tolerance for opposing viewpoints shown then...

If I disagree with a viewpoint then am I intolerant of it and "screaming" about it - or just expressing my opinion? If I was conservative it seems it would be okay, but If I am liberal - I would likely be labelled as intolerant and "screaming"...

My concern with gay marriage is the slippery slope argument. If the arguments for gay marriage are love is love, stay out of people's bedroom/personal life, and it doesn't hurt anybody; then why wouldn't those arguments apply to the polygamist, or the parent/adult child, or siblings?

With all due respect, IMO that is an alarmist and specious argument. "Well, if THIS happens then of course THAT will happen and people will be marrying their dogs/garbage cans/grandmas... "

All that is wanted is recognition and acceptance of marriage between two consenting adults - the same as any heterosexual couple is entitled to. It is not a slippery slope - but firm footholds on an uphill climb...

 

[ohmt]

I think a few of those were taken out of context (like rusty, again), Dr. Taylor

Personally, i try not to judge polygamists-if everyone is happy, then it's none of my business. Incest is a little hard for me to swallow as i feel there is someone being taken advantage of in those situations or other problems. I still hear of cousins marrying every once in a while, and again, i try not to judge as it's none of my business, but i don't think i've ever heard of a parent/child situation in which it wasn't ****. On another note, i think most states allow incestuous marriage, if i'm not mistaken. Will have to try to find that info for you (maybe it's just cousins?). I'm a little confused about how it discriminates against the poor. Will you elaborate?

There have been harsh "tones" on both sides. It's a subject many feel very strongly about, including myself. That's not anything anyone should be ashamed of. All should remember that when posting on something like this, there may very well be a passionate response that you don't like. The ability to have these conversations and then step away and know most everyone here has a good heart and was just standing up for what they believe in is what brings people together.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Hey I hear ya dude, because we all know that we don't have any of those issues now with only heterosexual marriages being allowed and those gays are a slippery not to be trusted group just like polygamists and pedophiles they're grouped with, in fact they may all be in cahoots, you never know Better keep the gay people as far away from being able to marry as possible so we don't get the sheep shaggers trying to follow suit.

Too KWEEL!!!!!!!!!!

My concern with gay marriage is the slippery slope argument. If the arguments for gay marriage are love is love, stay out of people's bedroom/personal life, and it doesn't hurt anybody; then why wouldn't those arguments apply to the polygamist, or the parent/adult child, or siblings? Along with that, why does marriage discriminate against the poor? Shouldn't it be free with no restrictions or requirements?

So.... Dr. Taylor you have made some good points, and i have been thinking about it, and to tell you the truth, i dont have an answer to as to why a daughter would marry a Father, or such things as that. Polygamist.... thought about that too. I am not sure that should not be allowed.

Because things are foreign to me, and something i would not do, does not necessarily make them wrong. I am open to different forms of relationships as long as the individuals involved are not hurt by them.

 

[ozymandias]

Once again - making blanket statements and/or suggesting that all the Liberals here have no tolerance for those who do not share a liberal opint of view is completely inaccurate.

Show me where "many" of us have "screamed". I have seen you, Jill , go after others in a nasty enough way in the past that entire threads were deleted and sucked into the void and the entire topic of Politics was banned for a long time

... there was not a lot of tolerance for opposing viewpoints shown then...

I've never understood why people throw in the tolerance card when it comes to discrimination. What, we're supposed to tolerate any form of hatred or denial or rights simple because it's biblical in it's base.

I 100% support and am tolerant of those who's religion doesn't hurt others.

Why am I expected to be tolerant of a group who want to deny other human beings the same fundamental rights they themselves enjoy based solely on a few words written by some men 2000 years ago. If my thinking it's wrong to hate others based on your religion makes me intollerant. Then proudly intollerant stand I

I'm not tolerant of ANY discrimination against gays, blacks, whites, people with mental and physical disabilities, people of different ethnic backgrounds etc. These are all thing that the people have no control over. You can't, if you're black, go to bed and wake up white. You can't if you're disabled, go to bed and wake up whole. You can't if you're gay go to bed and wake up not gay. You CAN choose, because of your religion, to be a bigot and if that bigotry causes intentional harm to another then "yes" I am intolerant of that.