High Price of shows

[susanne]

I would be delighted if shows around here (northwest) charged just $15! However, it is NOT the cost per class that limits our showing. It is the cost of stalls, the need to pay for the entire weekend rather than individual days, and the practice of charging as much for hauling in as they do for a full weekend stall.

Yes, I'd much prefer a stall, but hauling in can be an economical alternative and allows last minute decisions on even entering a show.

Show managers are also wise to eliminate post entry fees.

 

[pepperhill]

I would certainly show more if it wasn't so darn expensive! You can spend a fortune just getting the horses into the classes you want. We usually have to pick just a few classes to sign a horse up for because of the cost. The stall costs really hurt too. We generally don't have any shows that allow "jump outs". (The practice of just stalling your horses in your trailer) The facilities around here require that you purchase your shavings from the facility, at a several dollar per bag markup. Of course, you have to buy the tack stall too just to have a place to keep your stuff and work on your horse.

I wish we had more open shows around here. There are really only a few open 4H shows and there are NO minis at any of those!

That said, I do understand how the expenses just pile up for the club putting on the show. They have to rent the facility, buy insurance, purchase awards, pay judges...........it just goes on and on. I know that sometimes there is concern that a club will even break even, let alone make anything! The problem is that the club has to at least break even! When the checkbook is empty, it is EMPTY. No way around that! No one else is going to step in and make up the deficit. The club has to eat it.

It's just tough for everybody!

 

[sdmini]

Shows are expensive and I would love to show more but just can not justify the money to do so. I am going to the SF show in a couple weeks and the Lincoln show and bam, I'm done for both AMHA & AMHR. I'll do the fair shows as the kids LOVE the fair shows but those are very inexpensive, until you add up the fair food.

Pepperhill you just reminded me I forgot to get a tack stall, serves me right for filling out my entries on the breaks at my daughters Volleyball tournament.

 

[twilightranch]

yes I would show more if the classes were cheaper amhr classes are 20 and amha are 40 each.

 

[Minimor]

I don't know if I'd show any more if prices were lower--there are other things that come into play when it comes to going to more distant shows and having to be away for several days--but no doubt I'd enter more classes if prices were lower.

Having said that, I do know that our local AMHR show cannot go any lower on prices. We're paying $30 for horse stalls and $20 for tack stalls this year--those prices are governed by the show facility. It's a 3 judge show and the per class entry fee is $15 or $45 unlimited. Youth classes are $7 each or $20 unlimited. I'm only showing halter horses this year--haven't had time to do enough driving this spring to take anyone into the driving classes--5 or 6 horses will be going into one class each--the open halter class for their age/sex division. If I were driving one I'd pay the unlimited class fee & probably take that horse into model too. 5 or 6 horses seem like a lot maybe, but I'm taking ponies to support our new ASPC division, and of course have to take at least a couple minis...and so 5 or 6 horses it will be. Initially I'd been thinking 7 but don't have the time or energy to get that many ready. I don't bother with ammy or the color classes, and probably wouldn't even if they were $5 per class.

 

[MiLo Minis]

I'd love it if our show had a show all day fee! We do have a show all day fee for the youths. The MHCO show has never had any trouble getting enough entries to pay for the show and when we, as a non profit club, had a fundraiser for it we came out quite a way ahead of the game. The show fees could easily have been reduced if they continued with the fundraiser but the new show committee thinks that fundraising is tacky and the show should pay for itself. I really wish they would go back to fundraising and make it easier for everyone to show and fill the classes!

 

[ruffian]

When I first started putting on shows, every show had nice trophies for each class, each engraved with the class name. Going from that to just ribbons shows that most clubs are trying to economize also.

I don't care either way about flat fees. I don't show my horses in more than 3 classes anyhow.

I'd love to have AMHA/AMHR weekend shows. I would not want to add ASPC because around here there just isn't enough participation to warrant having the 60+ pony classes added when most classic are empty, and moderns have 2 or 3 at the very most.

 

[Sandee]

I'd love to be able to go to shows within our own state. It's the travel time, gas cost, and wear and tear on ME..those are the hardest things about not showing close to home. It seems I have to go 5 or 6 or more hours to show these little guys. It's SOOO frustrating!

And open shows - ha! The local open shows that I've been able to locate within 2 or 3 hours drive have, at most, 4 classes for minis (halter -all genders including pony sizes in one class, color with the big horses included, sometimes an open trail/obstacle course, and very very few with a driving class). Yes, they do only charge $5 but I'd pay more if they had more to offer.

There are always ways to cut corners on cost...sleep in the horse trailer, take your own food, but you can't cut cost when you have to drive 1/2 a day or more just to get where you're going. Oh, then there's the pay the vet for going over the state line into (dirty word) Illinois.

I love the pay one price and show all day shows but just give me something for minis within a reasonable distance and I'll go!!!

 

[mydaddysjag]

What really gets me is when the class fee is a $10 markup from the pre entry fee's. I have an all around horse, and If I'm showing 5 classes, that alone is $50. It also hurts when they want the pre entry over a month before the show. Sadly, I just showed this past weekend, and I wont be able to afford to send in for pre entry, and yes, I will show in less classes because in the end the extra few dollars really ad up.

 

[Sunny]

I agree with the those who suggested cutting back on the number of classes you enter. If the other two shows have flat fees, then you can go nuts there, and perhaps cut down at this show on the "non-essential" classes, or those that don't earn Hall of Fame points if that's your goal. Even cutting out Model and Colour classes could save you a fair chunk of change with five horses.

 

[Katiean]

We are off to our show tomorrow. We have 2 - 2day shows with 4 judges at each show. It cost me $20 per class for the youth classes and it is $45 for me to show. We have 2 driving horses so Jessie is showing in the 2 youth driving classes , Single pleasure and Country pleasure Then she will show one horse in Liberty in one show and the other horse will be shown in liberty in the second show. If the prices were less we would have done a lot more classes. I would have driven atleast one class each show and Jessie would have done a couple of hunter classes. But, with the prices where they are we can only show a couple of classes.

 

[midnight star stables]

I did not mean to offend any one, but we have only 3 shows here that are point shows 1 is 60 unlimited classes I think the other I am not sure how much unlimited. I try and work hard with my horses and feel they are good horses. This is our second year showing minis I feel the more you show they better you become so if I cut classes how will that benefit me our my horses. I know I was told there are shows that are unlimited $ in the west and in the U.S. I am sorry for asking this but there are others in the MHCO that have the same feeling as me but dont want to say. I guess suck it up and bite the bullet and pay the fees. Or sell the minis and go back to barrels (Im just kidding)

Actually, the one show(Drayton) is $50.00 flat rate, however this year I heard it is Canceled!(?) I didn't think that the other(Hanover) was a flat rate, but rather $5.00 a class? Things about this to keep in mind though is that both these shows are hosted at fairs, where the classics is not. I think that would matter. One thing to keep in mind is that there are certain classes, (like liberty) that are NOT offered at these shows and only at the Classics.

I agree with the those who suggested cutting back on the number of classes you enter. If the other two shows have flat fees, then you can go nuts there, and perhaps cut down at this show on the "non-essential" classes, or those that don't earn Hall of Fame points if that's your goal. Even cutting out Model and Colour classes could save you a fair chunk of change with five horses.

Just wanted to add, when ONLY showing in classes for HOF points in halter and one driving style class for my two horses, it would have been nearly $1000 for the weekend.

I do believe this was actually a misprint, however, if anyone has issues with the club, I urge them to please contact the MHCO directly - the only way that they will take notice and consider changing prices is if a large number of people are concerned about the current costs. Other wise, if no one speaks, how would they know?

***

I personally, wish they would cut the costs further(and I DO support fund raising), however I am in need of HOF points this year so I will be there no matter.

I am in fact going to be showing in the in the states at least 2 times this year. Some of the shows overlap with some of the MHCO club shows, so I simply may not attend any of those shows, along with leaving some horses at home, simply to save on costs. I guess it comes down to priorities, which is too bad.

FYI, I still love both the MHCO and the AMHR. Even though sometimes we don't share the same opinions, I am very thankful that we have them and that they do do so much for us.

 

[MiLo Minis]

When I spoke to the show committee regarding the cost of classes for our club show they told me that they felt they should not lower the fees because people need to get used to the cost of shows elsewhere. My feeling on this is that MORE clubs elsewhere should follow our lead and do what they can to reduce the cost of classes. I don't know how things work with clubs in the States. Our club here is a non profit club that educates people about Miniature Horses and is therefore allowed to hold raffles and other fundraising type deals. I really don't see anything wrong with this. We had really good prizes, weekend trips, movie and dinner nights, that would appeal to anyone, not just horse people. The tickets were not expensive and easily sold. If all the members of a club put some effort into fundraising to keep the cost of shows lower we could all benefit from it.

The more horses there are in a class the more points your horse gets from a win. This allows you to get your HOF's quicker and less expensively. When people have to start picking and choosing which classes to enter then everyone is missing out and the show is missing out on entries to pay for the ribbons for those classes that aren't being entered.

 

[Littleum]

The more horses there are in a class the more points your horse gets from a win. This allows you to get your HOF's quicker and less expensively. When people have to start picking and choosing which classes to enter then everyone is missing out and the show is missing out on entries to pay for the ribbons for those classes that aren't being entered.

True, true. But it's also been my experience that if a class needs just 1 more to get to the next point bracket, the management will find a "filler" and allow them to show for free. It's not much but it is something.

Since we're comparing costs a bit, I went to the Daffodil in April. I sent one horse. It was about $450. That was for 6 classes (2 Ammie, 3 Open, 1 Stakes), stall, shavings, tack stall split, clipping, hauling and a split of Lyn's expenses. I did not need a hotel as I live 90 minutes away and just drove over. It just adds up quick!

 

[Karen S]

We’ve had this conversation pretty much over on another board here recently. I think littleum stated that she had a horse with a trainer at the Daffodil Dandy.

What she posted was close to correct. Here are our show fee’s for a Three FULL day show Friday, Saturday & Sunday:

Open Class…..2 Judge Show…….$26.00 ($13 per Judge)

Amateur…………………………..$18.00 ($9 per Judge)

Adult PMC……………………….$18.00 ($9 per Judge)

Youth & PMC Youth…………….$7.00 ($3.50 per Judge)

Stall Fee for 1-6 Horses………….$40.00

Second Horse in Stall…………….$15.00 ($40 + $15=$55 for two horses for the entire weekend or $27.50 per horse)

Additional Tack Stall…………….$50.00 (Trainers usually will buy extra)

Shavings………………………….$8.50 (Facility charge not club’s)

Showing off Trailer………………$15.00

Office Fee………………………..$10.00 per horse

We had 212 horses attend this year. We were only down maybe 20 horses, as some

of those that would have attended were in soccer tourneys that same weekend and couldn’t

be there. We still had over 800 entries go through the gate with a show that had 414 classes.

In one driving class I believe we had 15 horses in it. Halter and performance classes

were 3-10 horses depending on the class.

I don’t think our show suffered and we pretty much saw all of the regulars that come and

we did have several new comers that came for the first time.

What some have to remember, when you put a horse with a trainer, they add extra’s to the bill

besides what the regular show fee’s are. If littleum had one horse with the trainer, out of her $450

bill for the one horse, here was her show fee breakdown:

2 Ammy classes @ 18.00……….$36.00

3 Open classes @ 26.00…………$78.00

1 Stakes same as open 26.00…….$26.00 (was included under open classes sho would have been 4 open classes)

1 Stall for weekend (Thurs-Sat)…$40.00

Didn’t say how many shavings but let’s say two bags…[email protected]……..$17.00

Office fee for 1 horse @ 10.00……..$10.00

So out of her $450 bill she paid….her actual show cost was $207.00…the rest of the $243

Was for the split on the tack stall, and trainer show expenses. That depends on how many clients

The trainer takes to a particular show and how many ways the extra expense is split. Don’t know

For sure how many her trainer had there that weekend that she split those expenses with.

I am seeing lots of different show fee’s amounts this year (due to the Triple A Program)

and yes, a lot of them have gone up just to keep up with the high inflation cost of what

it takes to put on a show. Our club held the line on price increases for over ten years. We

finally had to take a increase two years ago just to stay up with inflation. Our overall

increase amounted to $1.90 when we factored in the length of time that there was no increase.

Our club still strives to bring in new judges every show season. We still give nice rosette ribbons

(Thank you to those exhibitors that do donate theirs back) and we offer free stalls for decorating,

Scavenger hunts, costume class at the Spooker, special classes in the Spring…plus this year

we’re are going to do a stakes payback for our all Shetland show in June. This will allow the

exhibitor’s a chance to win back some of their show expenses.

Karen

 

[~Lisa~]

Karen I can say even over here in the middle of no mans land when it comes to AMHR/ASPC shows (Idaho) I hear only wonderful things about the shows you guys in TX put on - I think everyone within a 4-8 hour drive of those shows is very very lucky!

 

[Karen S]

Thank you Lisa for the compliments...maybe someday you and Raven can come down and join us.

Karen

 

[JWC sr.]

You know having looked at the costs of showing and breaking them down just a couple of weeks ago for the IRS. I find this thread interesting. Here are some results of the data we had for last 4 year of shows.

Show Type : 26 club shows, 9 out of area(AMHR & AMHA), 4 long distance show(in excess of 300 miles) and 4 AMHA World Shows.

Expenses Break down :

Entries: 16.03 %

Lodging 18.20 %

Tack and Regular Stalls: 16.90%

Fuel 23.87%

Food 17.00%

Show Supplies 3.20%

Shavings 4.80%

That has run fairly consistent for the last 4 years that I have data on. I excluded the inflated cost of fuel during the six month period where it was so high and adjusted IT down to the average of 2.46 for diesel over that period so as not to askew the numbers.

Also let me add that having looked at the books for several shows and also having helped run several that shows historically are not money makers in todays day and age. In the old days when a local show had 200 - 300 horses they were, but with the high cost of fuels and all the other cost folks are just not showing as much as they used to . I have also looked at several shows where they used flat rates for all classes and the results were basically the same as far as financially for the clubs.

Bottom line in answer to the question, no I do not think that folks would show more if the cost of the classes were cut. Additionally it would make it even more of a losing proposition for th clubs that put them on. There are just too many associated costs that have risen and continue to rise for it to have a dramatic effect on the overall costs. I wish it were an easier deal to get numbers at the shows back up, but I do not think it is. But I sure wish someone would come up with the answers.

 

[Littleum]

Karen, actually, I've broken down the math and I think when you've just got 1-2 horses it's actually cheaper to go with a trainer.

If I had hauled in myself I would have had to shoulder 100% of the gas + hotel + meals for 3 days. Still would have needed shavings + tack stall. Still would have needed fresh blades and other clipping supplies.

The only way it would have cost less would be if I had brought multiple horses... my overall cost would have gone up, but my cost-per-horse would have dropped. I would also not get the value-adds that a trainer brings to the table.

A lot of mini folks seem to forget how much a trainer adds to the equation... especially when you're doing performance classes, their feedback and insight is invaluable. You're paying for their expertise and experience. You cannot get that from reading a book or watching a video. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but it's true. And if you have spent time with a trainer and felt you got more out of a book/video, then you were with the wrong trainer.

So for folks with just the 1-2 horses I think it's more bang-for-the-buck (or just plain cheaper) to go with a trainer. Who knew?

 

[Karen S]

Hi littleum,

What I was posting to compare out of your $450 was the actual show cost...to enter one horse....there are other factors that will make it cheaper to go with a trainer (hotels and eats, gas ect)..but that's not was being discussed in this thread...Cost of Shows and show fee's. Yes, you probably did pay $450 but wanted to show what you paid to the club in actual show fee's. This is still a very good thread as it lets others see what is taking place out on the show circuit.

Karen