How do YOU teach Whoa!

[StarRidgeAcres]

A post on the back porch about getting your horse to stand still while mounting (another of my problems! OH! ) got me to thinking about teaching our minis that Whoa MEANS Whoa! Every horse I've shown, with the exception of Sera, was trained by someone else. And Sera doesn't count because she will stand for anyone!

So, I'd like to hear from experienced amatuers (like Erica for instance

) and trainers and also just people like me who show and have had a little bit of success. I'd like some specifics on where you begin, how you progress and specifcally what do you do when they move.

I sometimes think my plan of making them back if they won't stand still is confusing them. I'm wondering if they're starting to think Whoa means stand for one second and then start backing.

I need help!!

 

[Leeana]

I dont know if i am one of the ones you are wanting to hear from but i'll give it a shot

I teach my horses, show horses, to stand infront of me. Like i've said before, my horses are all very responsive to pressure on the halter. I will walk and apply pressure to the noseband of the halter and once they stop, i move infront of them and take a step or two back off of them, *IF* they move i yank the lead a few good time, everytime they move, i YANK the lead or stomp my feet toward them. They DO get the picture that when im infront of them they do not move. I actually eventually build it up to where i can stand at the end of the lead without them moving and walk a 180 (actually, almost 360) degree circle around them. If they move at anything, i yank and jerk the lead. They learn, when they stand still 'im okay' ..if i step or move then she yanks the lead, therefore, i should just stand here and wait for my reward.

Same concept can be applied to generally just leading your horse. If you are walking and ask the horse to stop, they should stand there pretty quietly ..if they move, i yank the lead and for a second 'come after them'. They naturally back up a few steps, but that comes natural to them.

None of my horses are deadheads and they all stand perfectly fine, need it be when tied, when im actually teaching this, when im teaching them to stand posed ext. I've found the horses learn it within 1-3 small sessions. The babies (weanlings-yearling), they are a bit harder i've found as when you yank the lead and stomp your feet toward them, they want to run ...while the older horses just back up and then get over it a bit faster.

 

[Erica]

Parmela,

I'm at work now and it's C-R-A-Z-Y; college is booming and phones won't stop ringing as spring semester starts Monday.......I'll try to remember to post after I get home and finish taking care of the horses.

 

[mini1]

I always start my horses on the lunge line. When they are going at a good pace, I say Whoa! and then give the line a yank. I continue to say whoa and yank the line (not hard, just enough to get their attention) until they come to a stop. I let them stand for a few seconds then walk up the line to them and praise them with pats and scratches. At first you may have to pull them clear to you before they will stop. Continue doing this and it won't be long until they will stop and stand at the end of the lunge line on voice command. Make sure you start stopping them in different places in your circle and at different lengths of work or they will learn to stop in the same place at the same time on their own. Once they have learned the "Whoa" command, they are easy to work with on the halter.

I have taught several horses this way and showed them in Liberty classes, when the music stopped and I yelled "whoa" they stopped and waited for me to halter them. I won quite a few classes because I could catch my horses. After they were done showing and turned out to pasture, I could still catch them by yelling whoa.

Teach them the command rather than scaring the behavior you want into them.

Kelly

 

[Boss Mare]

I am all about backing.. when they move any way other than that I tell them do I make them back.. until the give in and stop resisting.. then I "whoa" and praise....

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

I dont know if i am one of the ones you are wanting to hear from but i'll give it a shot

I teach my horses, show horses, to stand infront of me. Like i've said before, my horses are all very responsive to pressure on the halter. I will walk and apply pressure to the noseband of the halter and once they stop, i move infront of them and take a step or two back off of them, *IF* they move i yank the lead a few good time, everytime they move, i YANK the lead or stomp my feet toward them. They DO get the picture that when im infront of them they do not move. I actually eventually build it up to where i can stand at the end of the lead without them moving and walk a 180 (actually, almost 360) degree circle around them. If they move at anything, i yank and jerk the lead. They learn, when they stand still 'im okay' ..if i step or move then she yanks the lead, therefore, i should just stand here and wait for my reward.

Same concept can be applied to generally just leading your horse. If you are walking and ask the horse to stop, they should stand there pretty quietly ..if they move, i yank the lead and for a second 'come after them'. They naturally back up a few steps, but that comes natural to them.

None of my horses are deadheads and they all stand perfectly fine, need it be when tied, when im actually teaching this, when im teaching them to stand posed ext. I've found the horses learn it within 1-3 small sessions. The babies (weanlings-yearling), they are a bit harder i've found as when you yank the lead and stomp your feet toward them, they want to run ...while the older horses just back up and then get over it a bit faster.

Leeana - Yes, you're EXACTLY who I want to hear from!

This is probably going to be a stupid question, but when you yank the lead, is that a downward motion? Upward? What? Also, when you're teaching are you using a barn-style halter or a show-style halter?

Parmela,
I'm at work now and it's C-R-A-Z-Y; college is booming and phones won't stop ringing as spring semester starts Monday.......I'll try to remember to post after I get home and finish taking care of the horses.

No problem. I'll wait.

I always start my horses on the lunge line. When they are going at a good pace, I say Whoa! and then give the line a yank. I continue to say whoa and yank the line (not hard, just enough to get their attention) until they come to a stop. I let them stand for a few seconds then walk up the line to them and praise them with pats and scratches. At first you may have to pull them clear to you before they will stop. Continue doing this and it won't be long until they will stop and stand at the end of the lunge line on voice command. Make sure you start stopping them in different places in your circle and at different lengths of work or they will learn to stop in the same place at the same time on their own. Once they have learned the "Whoa" command, they are easy to work with on the halter.
I have taught several horses this way and showed them in Liberty classes, when the music stopped and I yelled "whoa" they stopped and waited for me to halter them. I won quite a few classes because I could catch my horses. After they were done showing and turned out to pasture, I could still catch them by yelling whoa.

Teach them the command rather than scaring the behavior you want into them.

Kelly

Kelly, this is a great idea!

I can see how it's really prepping them for both halter and liberty. Thanks!!

I am all about backing.. when they move any way other than that I tell them do I make them back.. until the give in and stop resisting.. then I "whoa" and praise....

I've really been a fan of (no matter what it specifically is) if they aren't complying, then they have to move their feet! If I'm trying to catch a horse in the pasture and they won't whoa for me to come up and halter them, then they get to free lunge until they're tired enough that they're willing to stand still and let me halter them. That's also how I've been trying to teach them to stand still while I stand at the end of the lead. If they move, then they get to back up - even if it's in a circle, until I've got their attention. I used to really be a Clinton Anderson groupie and go to all of his Downunder Horsemanship clinics, etc. and I guess I got that "move your feet" thing from him.

Thanks for all the replies! With show season soon to be upon us, it's a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately.

Anyone else??

 

[The Simple Life Farm]

I teach all my halter horses to ground tie. They know they are not to move or put their head down until I give them a signal. It is a slow and frustrating thing to do, but works for me. I start with a light jerking motion with a stud chain in a downward motion, and put my open flat hand in fron of their nose and tell them to "stay". I then take 1 step back, tell them to stay again. If when they move, I repeat the jerk downward, and tell them to stay. Then slowly step further away, etc......

Good luck in your training, patience will be your best friend.

 

[mininik]

All the replies so far have applied positive punishment, where a behavior (fidgeting or walking out of a whoa) is punished (shanking, backing or pressure to move out) in order to lessen the occurance of that behavior. Another way to teach whoa would be to mark and reinforce the desired behavior (whoa) and ignore the undesired behavior (walking out or fidgeting) so that the undesired behaviors eventually become drastically decreased in occurance, or even extinct, over time.

 

[Leeana]

I do my little rutine with a barn halter and about a 8ft soft lead. If they move as i back off from them, i give them a yank (generally i yank down about two or three times) just so they get 'hey, i messed up, i shouldnt move'. If you yank upward then it hits there jaw, i yank down so it just snaps them into reality and they realize 'oops i messed up'.

Teach them the command rather than scaring the behavior you want into them.

I wouldnt consider how i teach them to stand to be scaring it into them, i believe firmly in letting them know when they are doing something right and letting them know they have done something wrong as soon as they have done it. I guess my way is more for teaching them to stand out infront of you posed, rather then just learn 'whoa', but same concept

.

 

[Cedar Ridge Farm]

I start out by teaching them on the lead line. I say GO and we walk forward. I say STOP and we stop. I do not use the word "whoa" because it sounds too much like go. Sometimes we only stand still for a few seconds, other times for a minute or more. It doesn't take them long to learn what is expected. Then we work on the ground tie. We walk up, I say stop and then I step in front of the horse, pull down on the lead and say stand. If the horse figets..(I thinks that's a real word) I normally say "AAAANT" then I snap the lead and say again, stand. They get to know pretty quick that if they hear that "aaaant", they are getting a snap. This works great when you do halter obstacle

We walk again and ..repeat, repeat, etc. Once they figure this out...I increase the time that they stand. Then I start stepping back from them, walk around the horse ect. They pick this up so fast...once the ground tie is accomplished, they pretty much will just stand there when asked, plus they don't have that tendancy to walk up on you. The other thing that I like to do when working with a new horse or nervous horse is to have people walk around with clip boards or papers while I am making them stand.

Hope that helps.....

 

[Boinky]

I do similar to Leeana in that i snap the shank if the horse moves at all after i give the cue to whoa..i also use the word STAND for stand. Whoa means to just stop around here. If the horse, say moves a foot forward as if to move forward i'll snap the shank and if it doesn't emediately step that foot back i'll snap the shank sharply (downward) usually once..and then if it doesn't i'll do it again until that horse moves that single foot back where it's supposed to go. It's sort of the "backing" theory but not really. the horses learn fast not to move a foot or they are going to get shanked. If they are really stubborn and just plain refuse to do something i'll shank them until they take a few steps back and then ask them to set back up but typically if they move that particular foot that moves MUST move back before i'll lay off the "discipline". You can get so you can even see the muscles twitching and certain "tells" before the horse moves and you can start to reinforce before it actually moves the foot (or feet in some cases).

 

[mini1]

I do my little rutine with a barn halter and about a 8ft soft lead. If they move as i back off from them, i give them a yank (generally i yank down about two or three times) just so they get 'hey, i messed up, i shouldnt move'. If you yank upward then it hits there jaw, i yank down so it just snaps them into reality and they realize 'oops i messed up'.

Teach them the command rather than scaring the behavior you want into them.

I wouldnt consider how i teach them to stand to be scaring it into them, i believe firmly in letting them know when they are doing something right and letting them know they have done something wrong as soon as they have done it. I guess my way is more for teaching them to stand out infront of you posed, rather then just learn 'whoa', but same concept

.

My point was that even when my horses are loose in liberty or in the pasture, they learned that whoa means stop and stand until I move them. The same horses that I showed in liberty I also showed in halter. When it was time to stand and be judged, I whipered whoa to them when they were "posed" and they didn't move. I also could walk in a complete circle around them without them moving. I have shown horses for 20 years both quarter horses and Miniature horses. I have also worked for a major Quarter Horse farm with multiple World Champions. Please don't think I am criticizing your way of teaching, I am not, I probably should have been clearer. What you think and what you type don't always come out the same. There is a "trainer" in my area that is notorious for scaring/beating (opinion of many) their horses into submission and standing still. I just meant you have to be careful not to cross the line. I had a gelding that would hold a grudge for a long time, sometimes all you had to do was look at him cross-eyed and he would get offended and do the exact opposite of what you wanted. OH!

Kelly

PS-I hope this works, I have not done a "quote" before. Sorry if I messed up.

 

[SirenFarms]

i do EXACTLY what Leeana does

and it works great with my two performance horses and also with my halter horses. i do the same thing for driving except i see saw ( gosh is that how u spell it?) the bit in their mouth making them backup. they cant stand it so they retreat from it. Dont do it hard as you dont want to hurt their mouths but just enough to bother them. after about twice they will stop as soon as you say woah. with my driving horse i have trained completely by myself i dont have to use the reins at all except to turn. i try and do everything by vocal command. Totally went off subject there but who knows it may help someone? lol

 

[Robin1]

I am like Boinky. Whoa means stop!!! When I get their feet placed where I want them I tell them to STAND, with a light tug down. That means DON'T MOVE!!! If they move I shank the lead down and back them up a step or two, then we start again. That is how they are taught to ground tie and when driving and we are in line up, I tell him to whoa, he sets his feet then I say , STAND and he will stand there until I ask him for the next move.

Robin

 

[alongman]

I'm more reinforcement oriented, I guess. I start my babies at home letting me touch their legs, etc... then we practice. First, stop. If they stop for a few seconds - they get some type of reward (bite of grass, treat, pat on the neck). Then we work on placement of legs - at first I may have to position them, but sooner than later they get the hang of it and put them relatively close to where I want them. More treats... I keep working with them - there will always be the repositioning to get them "perfect" in the ring. But once they are placed, mine seldom move - they keep an eye out for the treat pocket and the cookie hand, however.

One thing to also mention, I guess, is that the time between the treats becomes greatly increased - I don't stand in the ring with a box of treats. Usually 3-4 treats will get me through a Nationals class.

 

[Boinky]

i guess i skipped my first steps because I start mine like adam does but I have some older ones that have gone through phases where they just dont' want to stand or they are being a bit rebellious and my post is how i work with those horses. I assumed from the first post it was an older horse that just wasn't being respectful of "whoa/stand ect". Babies and youngesters get a lot more coddling and possitive reinforcement from me.

 

[Carriage]

I would give a firm second to Boinky's method in total.

Ignoring bad behaviour is not training. Rather it provides no boundary and reinforces bad behaviour. It also

leaves the horse in the dominant position and negates me as the lead.

Effusive praise and reward is VERY important when you are getting what you want.

Bb

Graham Carriage Works

 

[mininik]

That's an interesting take, Bb.

Did you know undesirable behavior can actually be reinforced by reinforcement OR punishment? Even ignoring the undesirable behavior won't work if the behavior is self rewarding. As far as positive reinforcement goes, I guess these llamas, alpacas, dogs and Miniature Horses are all disrespectful and dominant as a result?

A clicker helps, but isn't necessary. It's also important to note that reinforcement does not always mean treats.

 

[mininik]

Information below copied from the Llama Tricks video above:

"Clicker training" is the popular term for the training or teaching method based on what we know about how living organisms learn.

Research has shown that any creature—whether a dog, cat, dolphin, parrot, fish, horse, llama, or person—is more likely to learn and repeat actions that result in consequences it desires and enjoys. So clicker trainers provide consequences desired by their animal in exchange for actions or behaviors desired by their trainers.

We call these consequences "rewards" and the process is called "reinforcement." Clicker training, therefore, is a positive-reinforcement-based system of training.

First widely used by dolphin trainers who needed a way to teach behavior without using physical force, operant conditioning (the scientific term for clicker training) can be and has been successfully employed with animals of all sizes and species, both domesticated and wild, young and old; all breeds of dogs and puppies, cats, birds, leopards, rats, rabbits, chinchillas, fish, and more.

Clicker trainers who learn the underlying principles have at their disposal a powerful set of tools that enable them to analyze behaviors, modify existing methods for individual animals, and create new methods where none previously existed. This flexibility allows the tools of clicker training to be re-invented in new forms that work in a range of situations, and for an infinite variety of animals.

The same principles have also been applied to training for athletes, dancers, skaters, and other people. Called "TAGteach," this form of training uses a click as a marker signal to teach precise physical motions quickly, accurately, and positively.

More information can be found at http://www.clickertraining.com

 

[skanzler]

Very interesting thread.

In teaching our horses to "whoa", we start with the walking forward and the whoa on the lead. We cluck to move forward, walk a few steps, stop our forward motion and then stand up more erect and say whoa, if the horse continues it's forward motion we step in front of them and back them to the position of the original request again say "whoa". We then step back to their side start our forward motion and walk again, we again stop asking for the whoa at the same time, again if the horse continues its forward motion we repeat the first step. If the horse performs the whoa correctly he is praised and rewarded. If he does not do this correctly the lesson continues until it is done right, as soon as I get the response I want I quit this session. I do not continue until he gets it wrong again. We end our session on a good note.

Yes this takes longer than the yank and shank, but there really is no reason for this unless you have an extremely aggresive, dangerous animal that needs a firmer hand for saftely sake.

We then move into the round pen and coninue our lesson on the long line. The horse has already figured out the whoa command on the lead, so this transference is much quicker to learn.

Once we learn this in the round pen we move to the long line teaching the horse to move out at a trot beside us and then to the whoa and the line up.

We whoa for the line up and will teach the young horses to set up. I will get down beside the weanlings and yearlings, set thier feet into the position that they will eventually learn to step into on their own. If they move, I put them back into postion, set thier feet, tell them whoa, I then slowly stand up and move to in front of them, if they move we go back to step one, reposition, set them, tell them whoa and then slowly stand up and move in front. Praise and reward when done right and end the session.

Yes, I know this takes alot of time and patience, but when teaching the young horse, or the horse that is older and has never done halter, this is the way we teach it. These horses are asked to stand for a long time in the halter class and asked to look to us for praise and reward, NOT FEAR of retribution....

My horses are happy on the end of the lead and easy to catch in the fields and round pen, and at liberty.

Each person has thier own way of training and there are those out there that choose to do it the harsh way. That is thier perogative. We choose to do it this way and it works for us and our horses. And yes we have been extremely successful using this method. It may take us more time in the barn during the day to get that one yearling to stand and show, but wow what a thrill to see them figure it out without fear of being shanked and yanked.

Great article mininik, I totally agree. I dont' know about you, but I perform better if someone compliments or praises me, than if they come up and belittle me or browbeat me....don;t you??????