How do you win??

[BallynoeBaby]

Hi I just have held off but im boiling. I was at a small show yesterday and it might only be the fourth one i have been to but for some reason its getting to me. Where i live there isn't a lot on miniature horses its only starting out. But how do you go to a show, try your best and hope the miniature does their best when it all goes to waste.

I know that at least one other person has noticed this but anyway to get to the point. People here who have miniatures and decide to start a class at a show can do this by ringing the show and getting it organised. But why should these people be able to compete, they win all round and i don't just mean one i mean all classes. OK maybe im over reacting a bit but when i have my younger sister out trying her best and actually doing her best, how do i explain to her why she didn't get where she deserved, when it is obvious? This really is a sour topic and i wish i wasn't the one to bring it up but it just feels like all of my training and time goes to waste. But don't get me wrong, my miniature is the best she does everything perfect and more. I just want her to be judged on her, i just want to know if she has show qualities?

Please give your opinion on this and tell me if i am over reacting or what?

Confused and angry

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Everyone thinks they have the best horses, and that someone who wins over them must be cheating.

You need to look hard at your own horse- it may well be turned out well etc, but that does not make it better than the others, it just means you have done your best for it and can be proud of your efforts.

What is obvious to you obviously was not obvious to the Judge.

And, at the end of the day, it is the Judges opinion you go into the ring to get.

If you really do not want it then showing is not for you.

It is wrong though, to assume that people who work hard to get these shows for you to compete in are cheating, I am certain they are not.

If you wish to get the judges full opinion, go over and ask politely at the end of the classes why s/he did not place your horse.

It may be something very simple.

Or it may be that your horse actually is not better than the one that won.

That day.

Another day, another Judge.

Next time you may win.

I doubt you would be claiming that the Judges were "bent" then???

Calm down, take a deep breathe and see what you can do to change things.

Perhaps the people running the shows would like some help??

 

[BallynoeBaby]

Thank you for your opinion on the subject it does look like i am a sore loser and i can say that i have not lost everytime and i love to show my horse. I can see what you mean and i should ask the judge for their opinion more. Although i cannot change what i see and i am sure i can find people who agree with me. I just have got annoyed at this and want fairness inthe shows, im envious of the american shows which look brilliant. This will not stop me showing no matter were i am place i will still enjoy the day and the people i have met. I love showing my miniature and god forbid, hopefully nothing will stop me showing.

It just drives me more.

Could i just add that when my younger sisters class started the person with the miniatures, who organised it was in the ring being a stewart, and when the rossettes were being given out one of the judges told my sister that, and i quote, 'I would have put you first, you were so well behaved', she was talking to the horse. This was a young handlers class.

 

[Colagirl]

Hi Ballynoebaby, I see you are from Ireland......were these shows organised by the Irish Miniature Horse and Shetland Pony Society?? I would be surprised if they were as their rules are very strict about show organizers being stewards AND having their own horses competing on the day.....plus they have judges that are screened first to ensure they know all about dwarfism etc which an ordinary judge of horses and ponies would not. I agree with Rabbitsfizz that you should always ask the judge for his/her opinion on your horse...so you can learn to see thru their eyes.......but also so they have to give a good conformational reason for placing you the way they did and NOT because of personal choice which has no place in the show ring. If you havent been to IMHSPS affiliated shows maybe you should try them All the best whatever you decide to do.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well I do agree with what you are saying. It may or may not have anything to do with how your horses placed but here we do have a rule that those actually hiring the judges and running the show are not allowed to show there own horses at that show but it does happen again not sure how much of that ever truly does come into play in the results of the show or if it even does but believe me I have heard others say the same thing you are about it just not being right to show under someone you are hiring to judge

 

[as if by magic 2]

I think this very same topic was discussed last weekend...there was two shows on yesterday in Ireland that I know of, both have been organised for a very long time, not just this year. The horses that beat you, have they been winning constantly, not only this year ? Is this there first year showing or are they quality horses that have a long winning career behind them? Where they bred as miniature horses, from a long established stud or are they just cute with to much luck or their side ? You have to be careful here as which ever your answer is to the previous questions, you could be judged as a bad sport. The judges here are different every week, so can there be a conspiracy at every show ? Is it the same horses winning or are there the same top 3 but in different positions each week. Coming on the show circuit you have to remember there is people there doing it a lot longer, a keener eye for an animal with correct confirmation and show ability. At the show I was at the champion had taken the cup for the second time. The first time 3 years ago, if it was a fix it would have been won by her every year. Secondly I was called in to steward the young handlers class.....which was 2 huge classes AFTER the mini's and I had different clothes on. I was only called to this as there was a situation that a mother had to enter the ring to get her son, on hearing there was an emergency at home with her husband. and no-one relating to me was showing in the 12-17 years young handler class. Put your animal up for critique, you will get an honest opinion if she/he has the potential to be a show champion, and they will allow for our different type.

The young handlers are judged on the handlers ability not the quality or confirmation of the horse.

 

[sparkle]

But how do you go to a show, try your best and hope the miniature does their best when it all goes to waste.

First of all, I am not really into showing, so maybe I shouldn't be adding my opinion...however....it IS my opinion.

:

I went to my first show ever in May and I was a nervous wreck about it.

: At my first show w/ no training and this was my horse's second show and my mare was..as Lee Crutchfield said, "stocky" (that translates to "chubby" for her! lol)....she got 5th out of 7th. I was happy with that...actually VERY happy with that!

I realize that you are out there with different goals, but when I read that line from your original post I shook my head a little. :no:

Of course you're going to try your best and if you know that your horse is also trying it's best that it is NEVER a waste! Any kind of work and training that you put into your horse is never a waste. In addition, any show whether you place (or place differently than what you were hoping to) is a great experience. You have that much more under your belt for the future. You'll learn different techniques, what different judges look for, what your competition is, etc.

I hope I didn't upset you and I can see your frustration. It's hard when you put in a lot of work and feel like you weren't noticed for it. I agree that maybe checking with the judge(s) after the show to see what they were thinking is a great idea. You could very well hear something different from each show. You could also have different competitors at each show. I think that will (for your own satisfaction) give you a better feeling for what you are doing right and wrong.

No horse is perfect. We all just love them so much that we believe they are.

:

I sincerely wish you luck in your future shows! :aktion033:

 

[Fred]

I know it can be very frustrating especially with young people. Here in our open shows they WILL NOT pin a child. Courtney can show better than the adults around here and they ALWAYS pin her last in an open show. Did she quit? Heck no she went to nationals with same said mare and was res national champion. If I took the horse in the ring here she will win. I KNOW the horse is good but there are situations where you will not pin even if you show in the buff. Most judges are very fair but they can have off days too it is a very hard job. Just last week I was pinned last in a driving class with a 3x national GRAND champion and he did nothing wrong. The judges just didn't like him, so next week is another show. However in this case for the first time I refused to show in the stake class as the horse next to me when asked to back reared up instead. Then she did it again and almost landed on my horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They still pinned the horse over me! To me that is an automatic DQ in driving and it was an insult to my horse. Like I said though its only a horse show and next week will be better!!!!!!!!!!!!! Linda B

 

[BallynoeBaby]

I justwant to say thanks to everyone who has posted their opinions i see exactly what you all mean and i shall take a note. I was really annoyed at this so iwill need to look into it in more detail. I enjoy showing and will keep trying. Oh and it wasn't an IMHSPS Show i am going to take my miniature to one of them i heard from another person that it is really good fun. I hope no one takes this topic as me being a nasty person i really did not mean it that way and if i am mistaken i shall be apolegising to the people.

:

 

[Minichick]

Hello BallynoeBaby, I am just trying to understand where you are comming from on this post. In the first place if some people were not organising show classes for Miniature Horses you and others would not have shows to go to. Selection of judges is also up to the show society and not the person requesting classes.

I have looked back on your topics in the forum and this was posted by you on the 9th June this year

First hi everyone hope alls well with people and ponies. Well straight to the point. I have a miniature filly pony. She is 32.7 inchs, well so the vet says. She is four, again the vets guess. She was bought for me, as im sure you have guessed she is a hardship pony. I got her an Irish Horse passport and then got her registered with the IMHSPS, as it is open at the moment. I couldn't get her into the british records. Anyway i can see that a lot of people have well bred, beautiful miniatures but i really don't know if i am doing the right thing or im i just giving myself more work with a hardship pony. I showed her in a non registered clas last year and she was the only one in it. Then this year she was i one show so far and did not get placed.

What should i do? How will i know if she is [[/i]i]right if u know what i mean?

[/quote}

This was your knowledge 9 days ago, I think you have answered your own question.

 

[Dandy]

Well, I would like to offer my opinion on this from a slightly different slant. I am on the Board of Directors of a local Saddle Club. We added 3 miniature classes to our line up a few years ago as some of our members owned miniatures and needed a place to show them. I myself have minis. A few of our other board members have minis. Many of the minis who show with us are what I would call just regular "back yard" minis. No papers, kinda stocky and really cute. My mini is in between. If he is worked he slims down, but he usually places over those other minis. We had some folks join who have what I call very nice "show quality" minis. If I was judging the class I would have placed their horses in the top three places. They didn't place at all. The local judge picked the "cute, pudgy" minis. They showed with us last year and got mad when that happened and I guess they decided to give us another try and came back. They showed one show and didn't place and one of them said to me "I spend all day grooming for THIS!) Well I spent a lot of time grooming too, and I didn't place. They told me we need to get better judges. Well we have 36 classes and 3 of them are mini classes. Our judges know next to nothing about minis for the most part. Most of the time they get the judging right (in my opinion) but sometimes they don't. But it's supposed to be for fun. Plus, they really don't get paid much. So, be a good sport and enjoy it for what it's supposed to be all about. Having fun with your horse and sharing a good time with other folks who share you love of the horse. Just my opinion.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Actually Yes, I do think you should be apologising!!

I know you just vented without really thinking but it did get really personal really quickly.

Not winning does NOT mean the judging is fixed it usually means a better horse won, end of story.

Lisa, our Judges are not "hired" they are not paid it is a completely different scenario, and we try to keep the rules at a minimum and the fun at a maximum.

A bit of competition never did anyone any harm and, as has been said, losing this week does not mean you will not win next week.

By the way, if wins were based on the amount of time and effort put into producing the horse I would win every time.

This is not how it works, unfortunately for me.

 

[Devon]

I know your feeling but it is not right. I feel that way all the time I try my hardest wee man is at his best and he still doesn't place. I ve decided im not really goign to show him that much now as the placings are always liiek last ro w.e I dont suggest you take that route though I have a nother horse I am gogint o shw and Wee Mans going to be my barn buddy etleast untill I get him in the cart some horses just arent show horses sometimes you think your horse is better than he/she really is good luck with her and if you know shes nice get past this show and kick some butt at the next one! :bgrin

 

[shane]

NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK BALLYNOEBABY PLEASE DONT LET IT PUT YOU OFF SHOWING, IVE MET A LOT OF GOOD FRIENDS THROUGH SHOWING,AND MY HORSE IS ALWAYS A WINNER IN MY EYES :new_shocked: :bgrin

 

[as if by magic 2]

Ballynow baby, in the case of the irish shows, and registration you are a part of. Although I don't need to justify my win yesterday. But the same stallion shown by me. Went SUPREME CHAMPION OF CHAMPIONS of the Championship show for the IMHSPS in Cavan last year. I travelled to Cavan in March and qualified a yearling filly of his, my friend a yearling colt both by him. Not wanting to take him again, We took a different stallion and still qualified ! Next week it will be someone else's day, and I'm only glad to see it. I have never discouraged anyone, only incouraged. Ask around other show members most of their horses were supplied by me. The reserve champion yesterday, the yearling class first and second place 2 and 3 year old class, the winners dam was purchased from me, third place was bred by me. 4 year old and over class 1st mine 2nd bought from me as a yearling, 3 rd dam sold by me, 4 th bred by me foal at foot, x my stallion.

In fact I take it back, I have taken it a little personally.

 

[as if by magic 2]

Ok this is not my nature....I'll take it back again.

You can show lease my stallion for the Killyleagh show beginning of July, I will take him their for you, have him produced. The cost is £40.00 and you pay his entry fee. It is only on the table until 9pm tonight.

 

[Jacquee']

Hi Ballynoebaby - looks like you are trying to get a grip on this and be more mature about it, so good for you!

I used to show rabbits. I would tell people, the reason I would go to show my rabbits, was so I could talk about rabbits all day long and no one would say, "Jeez! Shut up about the rabbits, already!!"

You can't talk to most people about rabbits, they just don't give a flip. But at a rabbit show, you have a captive audience! Everyone there has rabbits and loves to talk about them.

Same is true at a horse show. You go in, you do your personal best, and you smile, smile smile no matter how you placed. When you get back to your stall you can continue to talk about HORSES!! :bgrin I could talk about horses till the cows come home, and still I would not be done! So remember to have FUN and make lots of new friends!! Sometimes too you can get a GREAT tip from someone who is "famous" in the horse show world. Oh, there are more than ribbons to be won at horse shows!!!

And if you don't happen to like the judge's opinion, remember: you go to a show to get that judge's opinion on that day, at that time. On a different day, or with a different judge, or at the same show/judge but a different time, the opinion may be different. You just do your best, no matter what. And if you go home from a show and you have not learned anything, had any fun or spent any quality time with your horse, than in my opinion, you are a loser - even if you take home all kinds of trophies.

 

[Flyte200]

As if by magic can we see a picture of your champion of champions then???????

 

[nootka]

Not winning does NOT mean the judging is fixed it usually means a better horse won, end of story.

I hope more people keep this in mind. RARELY have I seen true favoritism, but it does happen on occasion. More often than not, I feel the judge merely favors a certain type and/or color of horse. *shrugs* It is always an opinion (a judge's placing), however there are many criteria to consider and some of these have different weights within the overall picture.

From the small amount I know of the judge's "job" I know it's one I don't think I could feel confident in doing. I do think that sometimes I leave the ring with a better horse than the one that placed over me, though I would never say that in a manner in which anyone could figure out which horse I was referring to, which event, etc. except in total confidence to certain people I trust (they know who they are) and not use a public forum to vent my frustration in that respect.

Sometimes people who do their best and bring their "best" in the ring don't win, and it's not because they didn't try their best. It is a HORSE show, not a people show, and if you have a horse with a disadvantage (be it conformational, etc.), then you are up against a wall and need to realize where your horse's weaknesses lie.

There are other things to undertake than halter classes, however, so if there's something conformationally wrong, it may not stop a horse from doing other things within the show world.

Take care and try and look around objectively as to the placings and horses that won opposed to why yours didn't (sometimes in the US, at least, a horse that might be better, but badly stood up will bomb out b/c there are somewhat strict rules on posing for halter (i.e. not stretched)). Could be that simple....

Liz M.

 

[Flyte200]

As if by magic i respectfully have to corret you there as Slaneyrose Stud may take offence at you claiming her stallions title :bgrin because the Superme Champion of Ireland title went to her stallion BIRCHWOOD UK SUNDANCE last year at the RDS and you had to come first or second to be eligeble,plus Cavan last year was a open show not a Championship of any kind.This year the all Ireland Championship wii be held in Cavan but last year it was at the RDS.Just mentioning it because its not fair to claim a person's achievement

:

Maybe if your stallion qualifys this year you might take the title this year!!!! :bgrin