The United States Debt Limit Explained

[Jill]

Jill, what with your fine taste in clip art, I would assume YOU would be offended if I eluded to the fact that you would rather be killed by a terrorist than offend one!

Nope. Nuh-uh. Not so. Why would I care what you say about me? That's not the same as caring that you not project your motives or interpretations into my own statements and present those motives, interpretations and meanings as my own.

So, enjoy... I've got an important client portfolio review at 1pm and need to get to my office

 

[2minis4us]

Never mind.....

 

[andi]

Jill you have make so many blanket statements about a group of people, Liberals, and eluded to so many negative qualities these people hold personally, all because of there political stance. You have taken their views and beleifs and projected your motives and interpretations into their own statements and presented your motives, interpretations and meanings as theirs. That has been MY whole point the entire time and you defend to the death it is okay to do so. The only thing I am assuming is that you are better than what you said, that you meant liberals are concerned about innocent muslims. If I am reading any more into your statements it's to defend you and agree with you.

Jill you said,not eluded to, though you admit to eludeing to many things, "I do think most liberals ... while they don't want to be killed by terrorists, they also kinda don't want to hurt their feelings".

Those are your words Jill, It is not my motive or interpretation that makes those words mean that Liberals are afraid of hurting Terrorists feelings, that is your voice. You want to say those are true words, that you honestly think Liberals are concerned about hurting terrorists feelings, go for it, say it. Without a bunch of screens and inferences, without blaiming your view points on me.

 

[Sonya]

I find it disheartening that some would admire someone twisting someone else's words and then calling that person a rascist and bigot. Making blanket statements about 'liberals' is totally different than attacking someone personally. One of the things I dislike about this forum, many make these debates 'personal'.....Guess I'll go join Jill on that 'pedestal'.

 

[andi]

Liberals are afraid of being killed by terrorists, but are kinda concerned about offending innocent Muslims.

That is a true statement and very different than what Jill said.

I did not twist anyones words, I asked over and over for them to explain them and hoped they would correct or reword it if they misspoke. I then explained why, if read as written, they sounded racist. I ASKED for how I should perceive them, how they meant them, wouldn't they mean muslim.

I'll ask you Sonya, do you think Liberals are concerned about offending Terrorists, not Muslims, Terrorists.

Those are the words Jill is defending, they are not twisted or manipulated.

Makeing negative assumptions about a groups personal beleives and life styles, because of the political party they hold, that is a big issue. Be it liberal, conservative, muslim or gay.

 

[Sonya]

James, I think many Liberals are concerned about offending everyone, except conservatives of course...lol.

Making negative assumptions about a political group is one thing, both parties do it, but making negative assumptions (like racism and bigot) to someone personally is out of line IMO. Jill did not use the words that you percieve, that's plain and simple...if you read her words and came up with a total different assumption of what she meant than she did, that doesn't make you correct, that doesn't make you right. If it did then I guess you'd be up on that pedestal w/Jill????

 

[2minis4us]

Never mind .....

 

[andi]

If anyone can use the word terrorist and Muslim interchangeably they are being very racist. I explained to Jill that I DID NOT think thats what she meant, and asked her to clarify over and over. All she would say is I stand by what I said, I meant what I said. I Never Never insisted that the only way it could be interpretted was racist, I explained the alternative. An actually, now that you bring it up, there does seem to be a third. So you actually know Liberals that are afraid of offending actual terrorists, but don't mind offending conservative. And actually, you know enough of them to label liberals that way. I have a huge problem with both sides exhibiting this behavior. I have had to turn off John Stewart when he goes on a 3O minutes ramble against Fox, driven by his obviously supportive cast, when the other side has no opportunity to defend itself.

I mean read this,

"Nope. Nuh-uh. Not so. Why would I care what you say about me? That's not the same as caring that you not project your motives or interpretations into my own statements and present those motives, interpretations and meanings as my own."

So I could have called all Conservatives, including You and Jill, racists, because that is a commonly held stereotype against anyone who didnt vote for Obama. She wouldn't care, Nope, Nuh uh, Not so. If she did she would be oversensitive.

But if I get to know her opinions, hear her view points, and then ask her to clarify something cause it sounds mighty racist, thats a problem!

 

[Carriage]

Interesting read for 5 pages.

Also very illuminating for those paying attention and in regards to points made in the past.

This has been 5 pages of (in this case) the right beating up on the left and to a minor extent the left beating up on the right. As I've clearly stated before, this fractionalization will lead us all to destruction and slavery. It's part of the Hegalian dialectic that you have been programed to perform. It also keeps you from seeking reality and THE truth. It is as clear as the nose on your face, yet it continues. An absolute dearth of knowledge regarding our Constitution shows on BOTH "sides". You play "party" politics while they strip your bones bare. You "think" you "know" the truth but your direction and the words you say clearly indicate that you don't. Also the date is 1913 if you are referring to financial change in this country.

Unfortunately, but as usual, those that have availed themselves to historical knowledge are dismissed or referred to as "crackpots" or "koolaid drinkers".

We're right and have been REPEATEDLY proved right, yet somehow we're still wrong. Until you refuse to be led by the nose and do your own homework (30 years in my case) this purposeful division will continue to be played out on you AND at your expense. I'll try not to be peeved overly much at having to go down the same road because the obvious is so easily dismissed by those that think they know what is going on, but haven't a clue really.

As to the original thread, I can't watch video's. However I would be very surprised to hear a true and factual explanation of the debt limit. Although a web based video would certainly stand a better chance of seeing the light of day than say, one of the numerous "talk" show hosts. Why? Because if they ever gave you the real explanation on air, their careers would be finished by C.O.B. How do I know? Because in the few instances where the brave soul stood up and gave the truth, this is precisely what has happened to them.

While I'm sure this will be dismissed or attacked in some way, I'll try again.

Homework,

Who has the most to gain or loose by raising or not raising the "debt" ceiling?

Think, who has been pushing hardest to get us to raise the ceiling?

To whom do we owe a lions share of this debt and how did the debt come about?

Feeling generous so I'll give you a clue, it's NOT a country but 1913 plays into it.

The focus should not be left or right, because that is precisely what "they" want.

It should not be racial as this to is a tool of division. It should not be class warfare as this is another tool of fractionalization. The more divided you are, the easier it is for you to be co-opted down a rabbit trail and destroyed/enslaved.

Lip service to the Constitution as it suits your purpose neither retains or re-enshrines it as the SOLE law of the land. Picking and choosing which parts you want to see observed at any given or transient moment is a non worker as well. It is ALL or SLAVERY. So far most are CHOOSING slavery. There can be only one party when we stand on the Constitution. Unity around this document is the ONLY thing that will work and they know this. "They" are not afraid of your guns as that is the realm supreme for them. What they DEATHLY afraid of is for the people to wake up and re-assert themselves in UNITY and for ONE purpose.

To wit,

"If those ants ever realize that they out number us 10 to 1, then our way of life is OVER"(emph. mine) Hopper in the movie Bugs Life

THAT is what they are most afraid of and therefore what we MUST do. OR you can continue to play right into their hands and insure that we ALL of us become complete slaves. The "neoright" still insists that we have lost no freedoms (no really and with a straight face) AND that free trade is still a fantastic thing. I thought only the horses were supposed to wear blinders......

Unity around the Constitution is the ONLY fix. Haven't we suffered enough under mafia control? Lets try something that actually worked once because the rest of it has ALWAYS failed through-out history

Unity WILL require hard work and also make you go places that you don't want to go. But if the truth is most important, then the trail or direction matters not. Lastly, you won't travel alone as there are folk like me on the trail with you. The buddy system at its finest.

Thank you for letting me share,

Bb

 

[2minis4us]

I choose to delete my posts on this subject after reading Carriage's post.

 

[Sonya]

An actually, now that you bring it up, there does seem to be a third. So you actually know Liberals that are afraid of offending actual terrorists, but don't mind offending conservative. And actually, you know enough of them to label liberals that way.

oh my, that was called a joke, a sense of humor is a lovely thing, you should try one! (you would think the 'lol' would of made that obvious)

I find it odd that you would know 'who I know'...as a matter of fact 99% of my friends are liberals (it just so happens they are my work peers, that I spend alot of time with).

 

[andi]

Ha Ha, 2Minis4Us, Not sure if that means she said what you would like to say so just deleted your own.

Thanks you though for supporting haveing a different opinion and not being afraid of stating it.

One thing we all need to remember, like Carriages post points out, the only way to fix it is if we all UNITE and are vocal about working together. If what you are fighing for is based in UNSELFISH truth, you need to not be afraid of speaking up, you will feel in the minority, but when we all Speak up we realize we are 1O to 1 in reality.

I am very passionate about speaking up and am always afraid of the silent majority being dominated and ruled by the vocal minority. My recent, the last three years, trouble with trying to work on the measuring in AMHA had tought me first hand how hard it is to make change. No matter if you could talk to 9O of the members, and they all support you and agree, only about 1% will actually get up with you and be vocal, and against that 1O% of those against you, you FAIL MISSERABLEY.

 

[andi]

Sonya, I am sorry, those are questions, I am not assuming you know anyone or there beliefs. I lost the question mark on my Keyboard. My question was, Do you actually know liberals who are concerned about offending actual terrorists, in addition, do you know enough of them that you can label them all that way?

I would recommend, If some one is asking for you to clarify a comment that they found offensive, you don't make it a joke by making it even more offensive, or they will very likely look for clarification again.

I am having deja vu back to the last topic like this were I was accused of not having a sense of humor. When it comes to a serious issues and logical debates I find humor a crutch used to not own up to what you have said, so you won't find it in my posts very often. That being said, on the way out the door, it might get a bit LOL, and I really hope nobody gets offended. They will just be jokes . . .

 

[2minis4us]

The Federal Reserve runs the Government, right ?

 

[Jill]

James, you know what? I'm done trying to explain anything to you in this thread. Clearly, you don't want to know why I said what I said -- you just want to put your projections upon me. You don't want to hear reality and you want to be some great supposedly conservative defender of liberals while falling back on every twisted, off base tactic liberals already use on their own. If you don't like what I say, I'm going to have to figure that's a good thing. Hope to see you chime in on some actual horse conversations, but the only time I notice you have anything to say is when you want to try to make it personal in a political thread. Better luck next time, I guess.

 

[andi]

Jill it is rediculously simple to all but a very few,

Do you honestly know anyone who is concerned about Offending Terrorists, liberal or conserv?

 

[Sonya]

oh my James is all I can say. If you want an answer to your question...yes, I do know of folks who are afraid of offending others to the extent that safety could/is compromised, and they do happen to be liberal and many do happen to be in charge of this countries welfare. Although this was never a statement I made I will gladly answer it. And if you find it insulting that I made a 'joke' to try to lighten the mood, I certainly find it insulting you refer individually to people as racist, and also that you presume to know about me and 'who I know'. I have to get back to work, I have lots of taxes to pay! Lol (a joke that I'm sure someone will find offensive)

 

[andi]

I do not assume to know you or your friends, I have NEVER met anyone who was afraid of hurting a terrorists feelings. Jill's comment was in reference to the idea that liberals are anti profiling because they don't want to offend terrorists. Where are these people who don't want to hurt terrorists feeling, that have to much empathy for them, they do not exist. They are an over dramatization of the stereotypical Liberal, created to make people feel like if you are a liberal you are weak and not willing to defend your country.

Now to go continue my rain of terror on the other threads. Apparently I haven't met my quota too justify having an opinion. Hopefully I can regain everyones trust by leveling out with some "fluff pieces". Luckily I have some pretty extreme left wing view points on important issues like proper chest support and actually have quite a bit experience dyeing my eyebrows.

 

[Carriage]

The Federal Reserve runs the Government, right ?

My apologies if I was found to be offensive as my intent was to be the opposite.

While you have changed the question, you are on the right track. Following a holistic medicine approach, you will want to look, also, for the root cause, not focus soley on the symptom.

As such you want to find "the" source. If you will, you don't want the trigger man, you want to find the one giving the order to pull the trigger. You do want to punish the trigger puller however to apply the fix you need to remove the order giver.

To help I will post a quote from "the" source "Give me control of a countries currency and I care not who makes the laws"

The plot thickens.....

Interesting note on responses after my post and running in line with my experiences for years. The "conservative" had and has had no response to my pleadings for unity and a Constitutional fix. The proclaimed liberal responded correctly. Just now it struck me as akin to the posture and mindset between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Now while I'm sure that James and I would not see eye to eye on many topics, it is his response to the message of unity that gives it a fighting chance. I do find it curious that a guy, so conservative that he makes ol Rushbo look like the flaming lib that he is, can find common ground with an honest professing liberal. This also flies in the face of the far left assertion that the far right, which they see VERY little of EVER, is the big bad bugaboo they have been told, because......... Intellectual honesty and a willingness to learn is what we will all need if we are to dig out from this mess.

Putting aside the "petty" differences for now in order to unite and re-enshrine the Constitution will ensure that we can pick up the disagreements later if desired.

Failure to do so ensures that we will NOT because slaves enjoy no such luxury.

Well on to a beautiful Lord's day,

Bb

 

[Carriage]

The Federal Reserve runs the Government, right ?

My apologies if I was found to be offensive as my intent was to be the opposite.

While you have changed the question, you are on the right track. Following a holistic medicine approach, you will want to look, also, for the root cause, not focus solely on the symptom.

As such you want to find "the" source. If you will, you don't want the trigger man, you want to find the one giving the order to pull the trigger. You do want to punish the trigger puller however to apply the fix you need to remove the order giver.

To help I will post a quote from "the" source "Give me control of a countries currency and I care not who makes the laws" Here, I'll give you another from the source, "There would be no wars if my boys did not want wars". That last to round out just how much power this "source" has to exert.

The plot thickens.....

Interesting note on responses after my post and running in line with my experiences for years. The "conservative" had and has had no response to my pleadings for unity and a Constitutional fix. The proclaimed liberal responded correctly. Just now it struck me as akin to the posture and mindset between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Now while I'm sure that Andi and I would not see eye to eye on many topics, it is the response to the message of unity that gives it a fighting chance. I do find it curious that a guy, so conservative that he makes ol Rushbo look like the flaming lib that he is, can find common ground with an honest professing liberal. This also flies in the face of the "far left" assertion that the "far right", which they see VERY little of EVER, is the big bad bugaboo they have been told, because......... Intellectual honesty and a willingness to learn is what we will all need if we are to dig out from this mess.

Putting aside the "petty" differences for now in order to unite and re-enshrine the Constitution will ensure that we can pick up the disagreements later if desired.

Failure to do so ensures that we will NOT because slaves enjoy no such luxury.

Well on to a beautiful Lord's day,

Bb