Too fat on basically air?!?

[Cayuse]

Boy is he cute! And a lovely color !
I looked up Nutrena Special Care and I see that it has soy in it. My 2 minis and welsh do not do well on anything with soy, they get very fat quickly. Not all horses are the same so YMMV on that but I thought I'd mention it. What I do with mine is weigh the hay, give timothy pellets to mix their supplements with and give them a vitamin supplement. I use the Farnam vitamins, Vita-plus I think it's called.

 

[Minimor]

If I missed the answer to this I apologize--what size is your dry lot?

 

[Becmar]

I switched mine to grow-n-win balancer, hay, and some pasture. I use to fert safe choice. My fat mare dropped back down to a nice weight. I am very happy with it. They get the correct amount of vitamins through that balancer. Plus it's cheaper. Good luck.

 

[MiniM@m@]

Very handsome man! I use a Taylor analog scale in my hay storage area. It’s easier (for me) to set for the weight of the bag you’re using so it nets out to zero when you hang it to weigh your hay.

My Haflinger and mini are both on alfalfa. A flake typically weights 5# but as others have said - weigh it! Every bale is different and depending on where it comes from, mine came be very stalky or very powdery, which also affects weight.

He is on day turnout for grass, and I keep the pasture mowed sub 6”. He has been on full turnout before with no issues. But yes, weigh everything! He typically gets about 1-1.5# alfalfa twice a day. Sometimes more if he is in for the day due to rain. I just started using a Haypillow this week and love it!

4-6# of food is a good goal, as others have suggested, and it adds up quick!

 

[secuono]

He is fat, but his weird butt makes it look bad.

I would stop all turnout and grass pellets. Keep supplements and hay.

1.5% of ideal body weight in hay a day.

 

[keko]

Well Lil Timber Buck, I came here tonight to find answers for my two minis. Our winter was mild but unfortunately I kept feeding almost as much hay as during our usual cold winters so my girls came out of winter on the heavy side. July we picked up our grass hay from the usual rancher. This year he was telling us about his extra weed control and fertilizer he used. The girls I noticed started getting pretty fat and bloated looking. Then I trimmed hooves first of August. For the first time ever one started foundering. I could not figure out the how and why of that and them looking like blimps. Its been super hot so they don't move much and neither do I in this heat that never ends.

Here is my feed regimen which is almost like Chandab's. 3 cups each of Nutrena special care, which as most pelleted feed, it weighs 3 cups to 1 pound. 1 1/2 cups dry beet pulp, and that is soaked and fed sloppy with Remission 1/2 little scoop, salt, and monthly physillium, (I think that weighed a little over 7 ounces) and each get a 3 pound net of hay in 2 feedings a day, which I soak for one hour now. They are on a large dry lot. So one is 300 pounds and the other is a close 250 pounds. They look like little balloons. I am going to cut the special care to 2 cups each a day, So just shy of 4 pounds total a day. I use the Kentucky researchers measurements to get their weight. I am pulling my hair out and don't know what else to do. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[Abby P]

Hi Keko, can you get your hay analyzed? That might help you with some additional information. Are they footsore at all or did you just notice changes in the feet when you trimmed? It's only been a month since you changed things and it can take a while to lose the weight so as long as they are moving in a good direction, even if it's slow, you might not need to panic.

Unless your hay is very high in sugar (such that even with the soaking it is still on the high side), you might consider removing the concentrate feed from their diet entirely and just feeding a little more hay. I had had my guy on a ration balancer and even the small daily amount required to get his minerals in, about 1/3lb or 3/4 cup in the case of this feed, was too much extra calories. He lost additional weight pretty quickly when I changed from the ration balancer to a VMS in a handful (a literal handful, like 1/4 cup) of timothy pellets, once a day. Besides that he just gets hay (I can't store much so I have no analysis on the hay, it's a first-cut timothy/orchard mix), and is in a track to create a dry lot. I can't be there every day so he gets his hay free choice in nets with very small holes.

Why are you feeding the beet pulp? It shouldn't hurt them as long as it doesn't have molasses added back but I'm just curious, that's a fair bit of volume in their feed buckets.

 

[keko]

Hi Keko, can you get your hay analyzed? That might help you with some additional information. Are they footsore at all or did you just notice changes in the feet when you trimmed? It's only been a month since you changed things and it can take a while to lose the weight so as long as they are moving in a good direction, even if it's slow, you might not need to panic.

Unless your hay is very high in sugar (such that even with the soaking it is still on the high side), you might consider removing the concentrate feed from their diet entirely and just feeding a little more hay. I had had my guy on a ration balancer and even the small daily amount required to get his minerals in, about 1/3lb or 3/4 cup in the case of this feed, was too much extra calories. He lost additional weight pretty quickly when I changed from the ration balancer to a VMS in a handful (a literal handful, like 1/4 cup) of timothy pellets, once a day. Besides that he just gets hay (I can't store much so I have no analysis on the hay, it's a first-cut timothy/orchard mix), and is in a track to create a dry lot. I can't be there every day so he gets his hay free choice in nets with very small holes.

Why are you feeding the beet pulp? It shouldn't hurt them as long as it doesn't have molasses added back but I'm just curious, that's a fair bit of volume in their feed buckets.

My smallest has a pattern of mild colic in summers, so sloppy beet pulp that is rinsed keeps her hydrated and allows me to add in Remission and salt. A perfect storm I guess of the new hay being high in sugar trimming hooves. I've been trimming myself for years and never had issues in over 12 minis, and if I could get this hay analyzed I would. This all started with the new hay which they get in slow feed nets. I used to feed Enrich 32, horses did great but the feed store quit selling it. Then LMF (typed for our soil) and that was a fantastic feed for them. They stopped carrying it. Next I went to TC30 they did well and once again the feed store quit carrying it, this all was over an 8 year period. I got so frustrated! I went to Safechoice Special Care which they always carry. They started carrying TC30 a couple years ago again, and now they have all kinds of new feeds. You may be right, I need to cut out the Special Care and try a VMS. I hadn't even thought of that so thank you! Only one had a bout with laminitis. She's in boots for now and is doing well except for being fat. Back to the drawing board. I DID get some nice alfalfa to mix in small amounts in case they needed more protein. I'm afraid to cut back on hay more. Again thank you!

 

[BSharpRanch]

Well Lil Timber Buck, I came here tonight to find answers for my two minis. Our winter was mild but unfortunately I kept feeding almost as much hay as during our usual cold winters so my girls came out of winter on the heavy side. July we picked up our grass hay from the usual rancher. This year he was telling us about his extra weed control and fertilizer he used. The girls I noticed started getting pretty fat and bloated looking. Then I trimmed hooves first of August. For the first time ever one started foundering. I could not figure out the how and why of that and them looking like blimps. Its been super hot so they don't move much and neither do I in this heat that never ends.

Here is my feed regimen which is almost like Chandab's. 3 cups each of Nutrena special care, which as most pelleted feed, it weighs 3 cups to 1 pound. 1 1/2 cups dry beet pulp, and that is soaked and fed sloppy with Remission 1/2 little scoop, salt, and monthly physillium, (I think that weighed a little over 7 ounces) and each get a 3 pound net of hay in 2 feedings a day, which I soak for one hour now. They are on a large dry lot. So one is 300 pounds and the other is a close 250 pounds. They look like little balloons. I am going to cut the special care to 2 cups each a day, So just shy of 4 pounds total a day. I use the Kentucky researchers measurements to get their weight. I am pulling my hair out and don't know what else to do. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

That totals 10 plus pounds per day of feed. They only need 1.5-2% of their body weight per day. So at the upper end 6# and 5#.

I would slowly cut back on the weight of feed per day.

They will hate you at first, but will be so much healthier in the long run.

 

[Becmar]

Beet plus ads weight! It is to put a nice level top line on a mini. I would cut out all beet blup to Start

 

[Abby P]

BSharp, I interpreted it as 3lbs spread over two feedings, not 2 3lb feedings. So it would be only about 4lbs total per day depending how much exactly the beet pulp weighs. If it's two 3lb feedings per horse then that would indeed add up to a lot more than they need!

I definitely agree, cut other stuff before cutting the hay. The beet pulp will have a lot fewer calories than the grain so I would nix the grain first. Even if it's "safe" in terms of carb content, it can still be just too many calories.

Alfalfa has more calories per pound than grass hay, so just keep that in mind when determining how much to feed. Unless they're in hard work or your hay is really lacking in protein, they are probably fine without additional protein added.

 

[keko]

That totals 10 plus pounds per day of feed. They only need 1.5-2% of their body weight per day. So at the upper end 6# and 5#.

I would slowly cut back on the weight of feed per day.

They will hate you at first, but will be so much healthier in the long run.

 

[keko]

We just measured again and weigh more than I thought, 338 and 266 ugh! The beet pulp weighs shy of 8oz dry and I add salt and Remission to it. As I said, it's fed sloppy, rinsed, and keeps the one drinking and fiber moving things along since she is prone to colic in summer. Beet pulp is one of the best things to feed IR prone horses also so not adding weight. They were getting the 1 pound of Special Care each but we pulled that out of the program today. Remission is a VMS and then 3 pounds soaked hay a day each. That is only 4 pounds 4oz dry weight each a day not 10. Yes it is 3 pounds soaked hay in a net each total a day. And yes only a bit of alfalfa, maybe 1/4 pound right now , love my little scale. Now it will be 1 pound less without the Special Care. But everyone here has given me food for thought. I learned a thing or two so thanks. With our smoke and heat no one can do much exercise. The Remission stopped hoof inflamation right away,

 

[keko]

If anyone is interested I used the formula (girth x 9.36) + (length x 5.01) - 348.53= body weight in pounds. I tested it on my vets floor scale and it was always within 10 pounds of my calculation.

 

[Abby P]

Remission is good - but two things that are missing which would be in a more general supplement are copper and vitamin E (70IU is nothing even for a mini, and I'm sure you're not feeding them the full horse dose, right?). Vitamin E is easy to add separately, copper, there are things like this available:

https://www.uckele.com/poly-copper-pellets.html
Nothing to go too crazy over now, but once they've lost some weight and you're figuring out what their long-term maintenance diet will be, things to keep in mind. To achieve a similar goal (supplement Mg and Cr for IR support) I am using Quiessence, plus a VMS designed for grass hay (CA Trace), and extra vitamin E. But it would just as easily work to continue the Remission and add some copper and E separately. There are some online calculators that can help you figure out what the big holes are likely to be in their diet based on the hay type and where it's grown.

I bet they will lose once the grain is out. Post back and let us know!

 

[BSharpRanch]

We just measured again and weigh more than I thought, 338 and 266 ugh! The beet pulp weighs shy of 8oz dry and I add salt and Remission to it. As I said, it's fed sloppy, rinsed, and keeps the one drinking and fiber moving things along since she is prone to colic in summer. Beet pulp is one of the best things to feed IR prone horses also so not adding weight. They were getting the 1 pound of Special Care each but we pulled that out of the program today. Remission is a VMS and then 3 pounds soaked hay a day each. That is only 4 pounds 4oz dry weight each a day not 10. Yes it is 3 pounds soaked hay in a net each total a day. And yes only a bit of alfalfa, maybe 1/4 pound right now , love my little scale. Now it will be 1 pound less without the Special Care. But everyone here has given me food for thought. I learned a thing or two so thanks. With our smoke and heat no one can do much exercise. The Remission stopped hoof inflamation right away,

They way it was worded, sounded like you were doing 3# twice a day.

 

[LostandFound]

I don't know a lot about beet pulp but I know most people who feed it, feed it to put on weight. And love it for that. I do like remission though. I feed it to any horse that seems like it wants to be an easy keeper, or that looks a little cresty.

 

[chandab]

What beet pulp does for a horse, depends on how you feed it, and how much you feed. It's a very volumous feed when soaked, so a small amount dry weight, fluffs up quite a bit when soaked. It does have similar calories to oats, but in a safe low carb, high fiber form.

 

[keko]

Beet Pulp for Horses This has some good information. Yes, that is why I feed it very sloppy and a small amount measured dry. My other vet helped me a lot about 10 years ago when a mare I bought turned out to be in foal and she developed laminitis. So in small amounts beet pulp won't make a lot of difference in weight gain. It's the safest I can use to add in their Remission and salt, I'm getting some dirty mare looks lol. I will certainly report how they are doing in a few months. I will look for vitamin E and copper supplements, thank you!

 

[MerMaeve]

If anyone is interested I used the formula (girth x 9.36) + (length x 5.01) - 348.53= body weight in pounds. I tested it on my vets floor scale and it was always within 10 pounds of my calculation.

This sounds interesting, I’ve always wanted a mostly reliable way to see how much our minis weigh! Where do you measure length to/from?