would like some opinions/help

[Molly's Run Minis]

i was wondering if some of the breeders here on the forum could help me....i'm planning on breeding my Misty next year to an outside stallion but would like some help choosing a stud for her. i currently have three in mind and just need some help choosing which one would best compliment her. please e-mail me for pics and bloodlines of the stallions and then come back here and vote on the poll for the stallion you think would go best with her. i hope this isnt against the rules i just REALLY need some help with this. thanks

*Edit to add, my e-mail is [email protected]

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

just bumping this up

 

[Sixstardanes]

Now I'm not being judgemental here as I haven't bred minis nor at this point in time do I plan to.

However, I show & occassionally breed Great Danes and I would really think what holds true with dogs would be important with minis - heck maybe even moreso.

Basically what I would think would be a good idea instead of just jumping into breeding (yes I saw you said next year) it'd be a good idea to find a mentor (or a few actually) that you could learn from.

Get to become close to and learn from what they have experienced. If possible meet & try to work first hand with them.

A good mentor wants their "student" to succeed and their experience can help in so many ways in the long run.

For example even though a particular animal may be the apple of your eye (depending on what you are looking for) may not be ideal to go to the next generation - that could be not from traits that they see but knowledge of things behind that animal in its lines.

Just asking a "dating game" from photos really doesn't say much.... but that's just my opinion take it or leave it.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Now I'm not being judgemental here as I haven't bred minis nor at this point in time do I plan to.

However, I show & occassionally breed Great Danes and I would really think what holds true with dogs would be important with minis - heck maybe even moreso.

Basically what I would think would be a good idea instead of just jumping into breeding (yes I saw you said next year) it'd be a good idea to find a mentor (or a few actually) that you could learn from.

Get to become close to and learn from what they have experienced. If possible meet & try to work first hand with them.

A good mentor wants their "student" to succeed and their experience can help in so many ways in the long run.

For example even though a particular animal may be the apple of your eye (depending on what you are looking for) may not be ideal to go to the next generation - that could be not from traits that they see but knowledge of things behind that animal in its lines.

Just asking a "dating game" from photos really doesn't say much.... but that's just my opinion take it or leave it.

i appreciate your concern, but there is no one around my area looking to be a mentor. however, i am not just 'jumping' into this. i have been reading and researching, watching videos and learning as much as i can about foaling and mare/foal care from conception to weaning for about 3yrs now. i have also been watching marestare to get a feel for what its like to have to stay up night after night and watch the mare. i was actually supposed to breed her this year but pushed it back to next year because i want to show her more this year and because i feel she is just not ready. everyone has to start out somehow by breeding their first mare.

i'm also letting whoever decides to try and help me out with this know the bloodlines, color, height of the stallion. i'm only asking which stallion people think would go best with my mare and compliment her.

 

[Jill]

I think Rachel has offered some very good advice.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

i honestly dont get why you are all so against me breeding my mare. i am aware of the risks involved and of the hard work it will take to care for mare and foal and i am ready for that. everyone has to start out somewhere.

also, the whole reason for this poll was to get some advice from experianced breeders which stallion would best go with my mare. i hand picked these stallions because of their bloodlines and how well their babies have done in the show ring. i was only asking because i havent been in miniatures as long as some of the breeders out there and i thought maybe they would see something in one stud that i didnt see, i just asking for some advice but apparently in doing that it makes me look bad. not everyone has a special mentor that they can run to for everything, i have had to learn everything first hand when it was thrown my way with no help from a mentor, this includes everything from choosing the right food for my girls to halter breaking and show/driving training.

alright...flame away

 

[midnight star stables]

I can see both sides of this...

A few years back, when I was close to your age, all I ever wanted was to breed my mare Joy. I was planning stallions for her since she was a weanling!

But over time, she became my show horse and I lost track of breeding. She's a HOF in halter and we've been working towards one in Liberty and Driving - she just loves to show! She went out to be bred once, back in 2009 at four years old. She came up open and that was that. It'll be at-least next year till I breed her again, and even then it upsets me as I'll lose her from my show string.

I know much can go wrong and it is truly hard to step into the world of foaling (well to me). My other mare, my "broodmare" has been at a breeding facility for over 2 YEARS now. I must just be lucky but this mare just didn't get in foal, no matter how hard they tried. After the two years of strong hormone therapy, A.I., and stall rest, at the end the season she did catch and is holding her pregnancy but is monitored pretty much 24/7. Like I said, I must just be lucky, so I really do focus on showing. It gives me a goal to work towards and my horses and I have fun.

But that's me. I'm glad I don't breed much, as I would not have gotten my filly Dove from the McCarthys, and she is beautiful!

So all in all it all works out. You can email me their pics/info and I can try to help you out.

 

[Jill]

I'm not against you breeding your mare, but I think Rachel and I are both people who have a breeder's perspective (her with dogs, me with horses). I owned and showed champions for years before I felt I could breed quality horses. When you're making something that could be on the earth for 30 years, it's just important to put the time in it takes to give it the best shot at being highly valued.

Additionally, when you consider how many minis are born each year and how many people actually choose to own minis, maybe you will appreciate the importance of a mentor and an education that can give you the ammunition to put forth quality. The "mentorship" you can get online from photos is so substantially limited. Also, realize, you are opening yourself to the advice of people with a wide range of experience and inexperience.

Even with a fast learning curve, in my opinion, it takes more than a year or two to know what to look for in a breeding animal. For MOST of us, it takes showing at registry shows, talking to successful breeders, and much reflection on what we have in our herd, and what we maybe should have.

Remember, too, you asked for advice -- not an echo.

If it was easy, we'd all own National champions.

 

[midnight star stables]

I just want to comment on Jill's stuff; honestly she ISN'T trying to be mean and she is speaking from experience. I have always respected that Jill showed for many years before getting into breeding. What Jill speaks of is what I wish more thought of. I'm a huge gelding promoter (and like you Molly, gelded my "stallion" when he wasn't nice enough for what I wanted to breed for) and have had as many geldings as I have had mares. If I could, I'd geld 80% of all the mini stallions out there

I'm even looking to buy another gelding now if I can. But again, that is me

. I'm am really picky about stallions too, and I really have to agree with Jill in many ways.

It's not to pick on you - I promise.

Each and every single person is very different. Jill showed for many years before breeding, as have many of my good friends. I'd say that I too showed before getting into breeding, and will continue to show until I and very old and grey.

I also know of many young adults who breed their horses - Although most that I know of, do have an extensive show record to back it up too. Erica was very young when she got into breeding, but Erica has skills beyond her years in that area

. I don't think you should be flamed for breeding, especially if you are using an out side stallion - IMO, best way for new breeders to start out with - as you'll be able to get a world of new show tittles and bloodlines to add to your herd. You can really compliment your mare this way too.

So please don't be angry with comments like Jill's, there is so much truth and support in what she is saying. Help come in many forms.

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

i overreacted, i apologise. i just felt like i was being looked down on because i was asking advice on the stallions. i should also note that this would be my only foal, which i do plan on keeping and gelding if its a colt. i've been looking at these studs for a while and looking at their show histories, bloodlines and how their get are doing in the show ring.

 

[CharlesFamily]

I am not a breeder - so I am going to throw my .02 in from that perspective....

I understand the drive to want to breed and get into breeding. But "want to" often isn't a good enough reason. I just posted in another thread about my first experience with minis, so it is fresh in my mind. I bought my first mini when I was 19. Of course, he was a stallion. I lucked out that he was AMHR registered because I actually knew nothing about minis. I thought they were just so cute and I had always wanted one. I came from a QH/4-H background and actually had never even SEEN a miniature in person until I went to look at this guy. Of course, I brought him home, he was a stallion, so I immediately began to think about buying a mare to breed him to.

This was in the early '90's. The mini business was booming and there was an explosion of miniature opportunities. This was also before everyone had access to the internet, so buying/selling was mostly done local and the best place o advertise was still in the Journal. I joined a new local mini club that had just started - Buckeye Miniature Horse Club. There I found other people who had had minis and they helped me get started. It was wonderful and we began to show.

I went to an auction and bought my first mare. It was actually the 4G auction in Beckley, WV before Grady Whitlock went around the bend and when 4G horses were actually well thought of. So, even in my ignorance I did a few things right. I trained my horses for halter and performance. We showed in local shows and AMHR shows and were successful in the halter and performance ring. However, I can tell you that things were WAY different than they are now. The stallion I had such success with then would not be in any way competitive now. Over the next couple of years, I added a few more horses, but only actually had three foals. Not long after I decided to sell my minis so my husband and I could start a family. At that time, I had no problem selling miniatures - the market was crazy especially for trained been there/done that horses.

Almost 3 years ago now, I decided we were ready to get back into the minis. This would've been about 10 years after I sold out the first time. I had been lurking on this site for some time. I knew how much the mini world had changed in 10 years! I could not believe the quality of horses that were available just down the road from me. I also saw the prices quality miniatures were bringing. It made absolutey NO sense for me to want to "re-invent the wheel" and think that I could breed better for less when amazing horses were selling for a fraction of their value. I decided then that I would look at geldings - they were always my first love and I knew they would be perfect for my daughters.

I placed a "want ad" on the LB sale site and was flooded with responses of gorgeous horses! I met Sheryl Stewart from Irish Hills Farms through that ad and after admiring her horses on-line for so long, here she was offering to make me a deal on her trained show gelding that was headed to Nationals! Toy came to our house fresh from the trip to Tulsa with mutliple national top-10s to his honor. How long would it have taken me to get to that place if I had decided to start breeding? I will never make the trip to Tulsa because of the time of year Nationals are held - and yet I was given the opportunity to have a horse like him in my barn!

Last year, Sheryl posted a picture of her stallion turned gelding that she had decided she had to part with. I commented on how gorgeous he was never in a million years thinking I could own him. A horse like Jinx was just not in my budget. I was blessed that Sheryl wanted a good home more than she wanted thousands of dollars and she worked with me and now I have a Buckeroo grandson who himself has sired multiple show winners standing in my barn for my little girl to show!

So, after this long saga of my life story, I just want you to understand that what the people here are trying to understand are your motives for breeding and if you aren't jumping the gun a little. You have registered stock - always a good place to start! Have you shown in rated shows - not just local shows?? That is the best way to determine if what you have is marketable. If your horses cannot win against other horses then maybe they have characteristics that shouldn't be passed on. And I'm not trying to be harsh here. It is a reality. As much as I loved my first stallion, if he was back in my barn he would be a gelding in a week - because his body type is no longer marketable. Doesn't mean I would love him any less. I am just being practical. He was successful 10 years ago - he wouldn't be now. And I know you gelded your stallion and are looking for outside stallions - and I applaud you for that decision. I wish more people would make that choice!

Sometimes the hardest thing about being a responsible adult is to understand that what we want isn't always what we should do. Just because you CAN breed doesn't mean you SHOULD. And trust me - I don't say that just to you. There are many, many, many farms still breeding horses that I look at and say, "Why?" If you cannot improve the breed, don't do it! Leave the hard work to someone else and just enjoy your horses! There is so much you can do with miniatures beside breed them, I just wish more people would realize that!

I'll get off my soapbox now, but I just think you are taking this too hard - people aren't criticizing YOU but your motives and timing. Just having read the heartache this foaling season has brought for so many already - and imagining the money it has cost to just try and save the mares makes me so glad I made the right decision that breeding is not for me. Are you sure it is something you are ready for?

Barbara

 

[targetsmom]

I just thought I would add my own experience breeding to outside stallions and maybe mention some things you might not have thought of.

In 2006 we sent two mares out to be bred, both stallions owned by people we knew, with steep stud fees. Don't forget that the stallion owner gets to approve the mares they breed their stallion to, and also limit the number of breedings, so you might not even get your first choice stallion. Our mares were already known to the stallion owners, so approval was not difficult. Both our mares were shipped out in May (in opposite directions)and remained at the breeder's until fall. So we not only had the stud fees to pay, but mare care for several months, shipping fees, farrier and vet costs, etc, while away. Of course, we weren't feeding them either, but it will cost more away from home! Plus the cost of ultrasounds to check to see if the mare is bred. After all that time (and expense) one mare was US in foal and the other never even settled. The one in foal turned out to have a false pregnancy, so like Midnight Star Stables, no foals after all that time and expense. But before we realized it was a false pregnancy ( while she was bagging up and producing milk) we bought a camera and put her on Mare Satre for additional expense.

Of course, if you have been on the forum for awhile you will know that we have had absolutely HORRENDOUS luck with foaling, and you mnight have lots better luck than we did; I hope you do. We figured we knew what we were getting into ( after 50 years owning horses and college degrees in animal science, and LOTS of research) but we expected that we would get at least ONE live foal before we experienced ALL of the following over 3 years: breech delivery (abortion at 9 months, mare in hospital 5 days which at least saved her life), false pregnancy, early term abortion, foal not getting out of sack, horrible dystocia/fetotomy but at least mare survived. Then five days after that horrible experience we had our first live foal (who has since died).

Oh, and OUR show mare: we have decided - even though we bought her to be a future brood mare - we will probably NEVER breed her. We just don't want to risk losing her. Sorry all you people waiting on a foal out of Aloha Acres Fashion By Magic!

 

[Reble]

Well its funny when I got into big horses geldings where the most expensive.

Now in Minis I would say they are at the bottom.

Mares, Stallions than geldings

I started with an unregistered mare and only cost me $25.00 for a stud to come to my place, and with two blacks produced a gorgeous black and white pinto.

I was than hooked on getting registered and talk to some well known people to direct me in the right way of what I was looking for.

I believe this is what you are asking us to do.

I am sure we all have a story on how we started.

I sent you an email so I can look at your stallion, I am not an expert, but will just suggest what I would choose.

Good LUCK

 

[Make A Wish Miniatures]

You are getting some really good advice from everyone.Have you discussed with your parents what you will do if you have huge vet bills tying to save a mare if she has a dystocia? The time to think about that is before it happens.We got started with minis 17 years ago. I think that we are producing much better foals now than we did when we started,but the truth is that with the economy the foals we sell today are not bringing the money that they used to and it is costing more to feed them and take care of them The farrier,vet and dentist all charge more now . If you are showing your mare ,then see how she stacks up against the other competition at either AMHA or AMHR shows.Doing well at open shows is great and a lot of fun but does not tell you a whole lot about if your mare is going to produce a great foal. To produce a good foal you need both the stallion and mare to be very good and even then can end up with pet quality. If you want a foal you would be much better to use the money you were gouing to spend on stud fee,mare care,foaling expenses,vet care and buy yourself a really nice foal that is on the ground alive and healthy,the sex and color that you want. ,Most people want you to succeed,but they have already been there and know what is going on in the miniature breeding industry today. Good Luck

 

[Mona]

The point here IS...MRM asked specifically which stallion may be the best choice in other breeder's opinions. That was it...she did NOT ask IF she should breed her mare or how about possibly the quality of her stock nor if minis are being over bred. I feel she often gets a bad rap here because she is younger than many here, and has been poked and prodded in the past until she flies off the handle. She took a long break because of that, and has gathered her courage to come back here again, trying to just be a part of these family oriented forums, NOT to get preached to for every single topic/question that she posts. Maybe from now on you guys can try replying to her as though she were a mature longstanding, well known and liked person on this forum before replying. Reply to her as you would to them! If she comes on and asks IF she should breed a horse, or what your opinion is on the conformation of a horse of hers, fine, then give a totally honest response because she is then asking for it. That is NOT what she is asking here.

 

[Reble]

I think you guys should look at how nice these stallions are..

excellent choices there.

I would suggest #3 because I like small, he has a nice neck, top line and his

blood line is also excellent, good for you to start off your breeding program better than most. I have to congratulate you and being so young.

 

[Jill]

Mona, with all respect, I think some of us just naturally choose to look at the FULL picture

I have not looked at the stallions Molly is considering, and from what I recall, I do think that Molly's mares have more going for them than not

Desiree, thanks for your remarks and understanding where I'm coming from

I sincerely know that the best laid plans can still result in heartbreak

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

Charles Family- I think Misty has done fairly well as shows, we have at least two rated shows in the area and she usually finishes around 3rd to 5th, she got a first once....BUT i dont really 'dress' her up like a national horse would be with all the make up. i just brush her and take her in because these shows are just fun for me and her

as for registered i plan on hardshipping her into AMHR as well this year. i dont know if i ever mentioned this before but i have received many offers for her from random people at the fairs so i do feel her offspring, combined with the right stallion, would be marketable if i had to sell it.

Targets Mom- My parents are all to aware of the cost it might/will take. i remind them of it constantly to make sure it is ok financially.

Make A Wish- I have gone through the whole buying a foal from a breeder and will never do that again!! the foal came here extremely underweight, filled with worms that took almost a full year of care to get rid of, had long feet that ended up deforming her legs, was covered in some sort of skin condition and she also wasnt weaned at 9months old and was very traumatised by suddenly being pulled from her mom. she screamed for days and we couldnt even let her out for 3-4 days or she would bolt through the fence and run down the driveway screaming. it was 2yrs ago and very difficult to deal with, 'specially because we paid over $1,000 for this filly! it was the worst thing i ever did and i would just rather breed one myself if that was possible. also, i really like my mare. i like how she looks, how she moves and i love her temperament. if i didnt like her i wouldnt breed her no matter how good she was.

Mona- Thank you!

i hope i answered all questions, there were quite a few. if i missed any let me know

 

[Molly's Run Minis]

I think you guys should look at how nice her stallions are..

Boy you have some excellent stallions there.

I would suggest #3 because I like small, he has a nice neck, top line and his

blood line is also excellent, good for you to start off your breeding program better than most. I have to congratulate you and being so young.

thank you. i have been admiring #3 forever, and i saw him in person...he moves like a dream

he's also re-entering the show string this year as an 8yr old!

 

[Reble]

I believe you should put up the pictures with their info you have,

I believe you might get better replies of what you are asking for.