Frustrating fact...

[~Lisa~]

LOL Jill I guess I should not have said no one and said a majority do not seem to be trying to deny them rights

I figured you would not be ok with that kinda know you better then that after all these years

 

[Jill]

Yeah... Depending on the offense, prettymuch a cage and stale food is good enough IMO.

 

[Matt73]

While I love the United States (and Canada and many other countries wouldn't be the countries they are without you...and vice versa), the hypocrisy surrounding so many issues there is insane. Just move to Canada

(gay marriage is legal here).

 

[LindaL]

LindaL.....I understand what you are saying about Florida not recognizing a piece of paper from Oregon. I am straight but I have some very good friends who are not. Some day there will probably be more rights for gay partners. Until then could there be some legal form drawn up by an attorney to at least give one the permission to act on behalf of the other partner as "family" so they couldn't be denied visitation at the hospital etc? Also, designated to arrange funeral when the time came.

Yes, we plan to do that. Thanks for the reminder...I do have a will, a living will and a DNR that I had done before Deb and I were together, but obviously it needs to be updated. My sister is my main "person" and she is VERY accepting of Deb as part of the family, so would have no problem with her being involved in anything, but we still want to put it in black and white and vice versa for Deb who has family, but she does NOT speak to them, so I am her family. It would be VERY bad if Deb were to die...her family would NOT let me be involved.

I do want to say, tho, that while it is not "mandatory" for employers in Florida to accept domestic partners as a 2nd person on health insurance, the hospital where Deb works has insurance that DOES! So, we got lucky there!

 

[bonloubri]

Sometimes in emergency situations family can put a lot of pressure on a person such as your sister. I would be getting something legal done so there would be no question. Also, some other friends had an attorney drawn up a trust. I am not sure just how that works but supposedly it was better than wills. You might want to check into that.

 

[Flying minis]

I truly believe that in the next generation - my son's generation - the "issue" over gay marriage will be past. I see so much more acceptance and tolerance in his generation, that I think the pressure will be brought to bear on lawmakers, and gay marriage will be allowed throughout the US. Maybe I'm just an optimist : ) But as the mother of a 16 year old gay young man, I see the majority of kids his age really don't care if he's gay or straight, and don't have issues with gay marriage. Unfortunately, I don't know that it will happen until his generation is in political power, his is the first generation that I see widespread acceptance of it.

Having said that though, to me, what it will take is for those who agree with making gay marriage legal to start being as vocal as those who don't. Even now, in most polls, the majority of people (sometimes a slim majority, granted, depending on the poll) agree with making gay marriage legal; unfortunately, they don't speak up like those who are in opposition. I listen to my son talk about someday getting married, and while it makes me glad that he can even conceive it (a generation ago, there would have been no question - a young gay man then would NEVER have thought of being able to marry), it also makes me sad that others will decide if he is able to marry.

And for anyone who gives the "religious" viewpoint that god meant marriage to be between a man and woman - here's my standard response which at least sometimes makes them think - Even if I accept that your interpretation of Christianity forbids gay marriage, if we're going to base marriage laws on Christian religious teaching, then why do we let atheists marry? You can't have both - either you let only Christians who agree with your theology marry (and have a non-secular religion run state - the "Christian" version of Sharia law) or you let anyone who can give informed consent marry.

 

[Jill]

I am reading Thw Help now and this morning while getting ready, I thought what if black people couldn't marry? No one chooses their color just as no one chooses to be straight or gay. Like I said, I've always supported equal rights for all couples, but that was a new "oh wow" moment for me this morning in terms of importance.

 

[LindaL]

Sometimes in emergency situations family can put a lot of pressure on a person such as your sister. I would be getting something legal done so there would be no question. Also, some other friends had an attorney drawn up a trust. I am not sure just how that works but supposedly it was better than wills. You might want to check into that.

I should have added that my whole family accepts Deb as part of our family, but yes, there are things that Deb knows *I* want done that my family may fight her on (no funeral, no casket, no burial)...so having it put in Deb's name in my directive (I think that's the correct term?) would make it her decision on what to have done with my body afterwards...HOPEFULLY!

 

[sfmini]

Yes, you can get lots of pieces of legal papers in place that might protect your wishes and rights if people choose to honor them, but what is so wrong with giving same sex couples the same rights as hetero couples?

For that matter, allow plural marriage if that is what makes people happy, what harm are they doing to others? None that I can see, they are living their lives, feeling fulfilled, productive members of society, live and let live, live as you believe you should live and stop judging other people for living their lives as they see fit.

Don't label me as gay because I am single, I am single because I choose to be, never met the right man and will stay single unless the right man comes along.

As I see it, this country has much bigger issues to be working on.

Ok republican party, I hear you are anti health care reform, but what I don't hear is what your solution is to the health care problems in this country. Yes the bill isn't perfect and needs work, but what is the counter proposal? We sure need something because nothing is not an option. I find it funny that the same people who don't bat an eye and even support mandatory car insurance get hysterical at mandatory health insurance. Ok, so if you don't want health insurance, then I want it to be legal to boot you out the door and refuse to give you any health care.

oooo, major rant and ot, sorry.

 

[ohmt]

After working at a health clinic for many years, I have seen first hand the problems with insurance (and having to deal with the insurance companies) and no insurance, and from hundreds of different people's sides. It is heartbreaking and I very much agree with you sfmini.

I also agree with you Flying Minis. My age group (20's) is almost there with your son's. So much more accepting than older generations. It makes me very excited for our future

 

[sfmini]

I am in the older generation, mid 50's so even us oldesters are are starting to see the light.

I am one of those who is boycotting Lowes while trying very hard not to strangle my roomate's husband and my brother who just get nuts over stuff like the show All American Muslim and don't understand when I get peeved off at them for sending me junk that is anti Muslim and oh, so ignorant. Seems they forget my long term relationship with a Muslim and the fact that I have many Muslim friends and a Muslim boss and that I feel they are the nicest people you would ever want to know.

The Koran like the Bible is open to interpretation and the wording can be twisted to suit the desires of any nutcase like those we are fighting now, and the nutcase called Hitler that we fought years ago. Funny how we don't consider Germans to be the evil people that Muslims are thought of today.

I once asked a Libyan guy I was dating why he didn't just stay in the US instead of returning home once he got his degree and he told me they would torture and kill his family if he didn't. It wasn't his religion that was doing that, it was the nutcases running the country using Allah as a shield.

 

[~Lisa~]

SFMINI I so agree with you. SO much ignorance and rightousnous in this world.

Amazing how stupid people are willing to look and act all to try and appear right

 

[alongman]

It is so nice to see what an open-minded group of "horse" friends that are out there. Maybe we just need to enforce gelding of politicians to help improve their attitude in dealing with others in the herd.

 

[Flying minis]

It is so nice to see what an open-minded group of "horse" friends that are out there.

I have to tell you Adam, that's one of the reasons we have gotten into the mini shows more - it's hard enough for my son being a young gay man, but the folks at the mini shows are so wonderful! They accept him and like him and there is no judging (other than in the ring of course!).

 

[sfmini]

My horsey friends and I have a saying about the horsey men which is kind of a bummer for us single girls, all the good ones are either married or gay. I find that to be true.

 

[maestoso]

I don't frequent the back porch much but I am glad to have come across this thread...thank you, Adam.

And I disagree with both Adam and Jill. Personally, I DON'T think there is a bigger issue than equal rights right now. Equal rights is a much larger issue than gay rights, it's just that gay rights, at the moment, are at the forefront of equal rights. But before this it has been several other issues...rights for women, rights for African Americans, the list goes on.

Why are gays so passionate about this issue when there are so many other issues to consider? It is not because we are gay or because we want to marry. It is because people are equally passionate about denying "us" these rights. If people didn't care so much, we probably wouldn't either. Then again, if people weren't so worried about it, we would probably have the right already.

This is not about religion or beliefs...people need to get that out of their heads. This is about equal rights that are owed to all American citizens. Equal rights are not a privilege, they are RIGHTS. We are people, like anyone else is a person. We work, we pay taxes, we must abide by the same rules and be as responsible as any straight citizen yet we do not have the same rights? Hello? Is anyone home up there?

I hate the religious argument. America was founded on Christian morals and a marriage is between a man and a woman blah blah blah. This argument is a mask to hide what is really going on. If it really was about religion, than the right to marriage would be denied to all known atheists, pagans, agnostics, Jews, Jahovas Witnesses, etc etc etc. But it is the gays that are targeted here, when there are plenty of other non Christians who could be targeted.

The whole concept is as ridiculous as telling people with blonde hair that they can't marry, and anyone who can't see it for that is too stubborn, too ignorant, or too brainwashed. Gay is not contagious, by the way, in case there was confusion. Also, nobody is forcing you to attend a gay wedding. OH! And by the way, the percentage of gays on welfare is FAR less than the percentage of straight people on welfare. The percentage of gay prisoners is FAR less than the percentage of straight prisoners. Honestly, if I wanted to claim that gays were, in general, better people, I would have plenty of evidence to support that. BUT, that is not my claim. My claim is that we are people, who deserve the SAME rights as any other people.

 

[MyBarakah]

WOw! That was a very profound GREAT post Matt! I'm not gay.. But I show with Adam & his partner and also around others that are gay.. And by the way! Why are you gay guys SO DANG GOOD LOOKING! Lol!

But you guys are really super nice & great!

But I agree with what Matt just wrote.. that kinda sums it up!

I don't post allot on here... but just had to comment!

 

[wildoak]

Until then could there be some legal form drawn up by an attorney to at least give one the permission to act on behalf of the other partner as "family" so they couldn't be denied visitation at the hospital etc? Also, designated to arrange funeral when the time came.

Exactly. Doesn't solve the larger issue, but should help for the short term. Just be sure it is done by a knowledgeable lawyer and complies with laws in your particular state.

Jan

 

[Bess Kelly]

Several of my long time best friends are gay. I am not, so what!? We did not hold that against one another

While all of the "equal" issues are being considered, let's add this one ---- similar to the gay partners who can't/don't have decision making and/or benefits shared --- for those who are NOT married and happily co-habitating.

IF you live in a State that has "common law marriage" laws (hetero partners only), you have the same rights as if you had done the "I do" route. Live in a State where you do not have "common law marriage" and you are still just friends. The Social Security benefits disappear, or not, depending on this fact; also, the Federal Gov't pensions, sharing of health insurance, decisions on illness care, funeral arrangements........etc. THAT isn't fair either. How can the feds feel that paying out is fair based solely on a State law? They sure want everyone to pay fed taxes in every State!

Maybe we could work on that unfairness, also.

I mean why should NC people get SS benefits and VA residents not if couples lived and presented as H/W for same length of time??

There is a great deal of conflict over "equal" situations....for many.

 

[Sonya]

I am curious as to what you all think about Polygamy/Polyandry in regards to rights of marriage. Are they being treated equally? ex: should a polygamist be able to have his 3 wives under his insurance plan?

For the record, I am for gay marriage and rights in regard. So technically I should also be for equality of marriage benefits for the polygamist right? So where is the line drawn and why?

Just something to ponder.